Talk:Chester F.C.

Requested Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 11:17, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

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Chester F.C. (2010) → Chester F.C. — 'Chester F.C.' currently redirects to Chester City F.C., as it was Chester City's name prior to 1983. However, there are currently only five links on Wikipedia to Chester F.C., and only one in article space. As information about the new club develops, more links will be made and most of these - as with most searches - will be for 'Chester F.C.'. Though it is a little 'recentist' to propose this, I think that having this page at Chester F.C. is more practical for day to day use of the encyclopaedia. Furthermore, both articles will then be at names which directly reflect what they have been called, whereas this article is currently at an 'artificial' name. Pretty Green (talk) 09:01, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Pretty Green (talk) 09:06, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

• Support as all the web pages I could see referring to the new club seem to be just 'Chester'. However, if the page move is successful then perhaps a hatnote should be added to the top referring to the original 'Chester'? Eldumpo (talk) 22:40, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think that should still be linked via such a method. --Pretty Green (talk) 10:03, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• Support agree on the above, I pointed out a while back for this on the project talk page, just got back here and support the move. Govvy (talk) 10:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
• Support Owain (talk) 08:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
• Support per nom and Eldumpo. It also seems to be required under WP:COMMONNAME. Alzarian16 (talk) 09:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reverted

I apologise that I reverted the move based on it being reported elsewhere, without noticing this discussion. But this seems to overthrow a much more widely contributed-to and read discussion at WT:FOOTY which reached the opposite conclusion. Kevin McE (talk) 16:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for linking to that discussion as it does add to the picture. However, a lot of things have changed since then: this article now has eight sources and its notability is no longer in question as it was at the time. Since both articles seem to have high page view statistics, wouldn't it be a better idea to create a disambig page at Chester F.C.? Alzarian16 (talk) 19:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I did list this at Wikiproject Football... but that is by the by. The information on Chester FC has developed since 25 March - significantly, they have the Deva Stadium, showing that this will be the main football team in Chester.

My rationale for wanting this article at Chester FC is that whilst that was indeed Chester City's name for the majority of its history, having this at Chester FC and the other article at Chester City FC would result in both articles being names associated with the clubs, rather than one having an awkward disambiguation. Chester City FC is clearly a more notable topic than Chester FC - I'm not disputing that - but article naming is about BOTH notability and pragmatism/usability. From a pragmatic POV, few new links are likely to be created to a now wound-up club. People searching for the old club will most likely use its most recent name (Chester City) rather than its older name, whilst Chester City is arguably more recognisable as the club's name than Chester. There are also currently very few links to Chester F.C.. I note that the first two principles of article naming are that titles should be:

Recognizable – Using names and terms commonly used in reliable sources, and so likely to be recognized, for the topic of the article. Easy to find – Using names and terms that readers are most likely to look for in order to find the article (and to which editors will most naturally link from other articles).

Under these guidelines, I'd suggest that this article should be at Chester FC, not Chester FC (2010). This is not a claim over notability, but pragmatics. Pretty Green (talk) 14:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

(It was the removal of this from WP:FOOTY that drew my attention to it, but nevertheless it had been discussed, and a fairly clear agreement reached, some time before that)

I would contend that, although the name change was in 1983, the City qualifier never really entered far into public consciousness outside the fan base, just as Carlisle United and Macclesfield Town are far more often referred to by just one word, and as the official name change to Leyton Orient did little to affect the way most fans of their opponents would allude to them. So the recognisability issue will lead to confusion on the part of many. When and if the new Chester FC establish themselves at a level where they have a profile beyond their prospective fanbase and the novelty value of a phoenix club, a change of article location might be appropriate, but not yet I would suggest. Kevin McE (talk) 16:36, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree more with Pretty Green, the use of the name in year established is not really running in style with the football project naming. People will be able to find what information they need when they type in Chester FC or Chester City or Chester City FC, ect. I am sure the documentation will be clearly time-lined. Govvy (talk) 22:09, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there is a precedent for this naming convention, such as with Accrington Stanley F.C. (1891). In the end a hatnote will probably suffice here, but I wouldn't say this is clear-cut. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:31, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

At the moment, the proposer may well be right that there's more interest in the new club than the old. Once the novelty wears off, and the new club is just one of many level 7 or 8 non-league clubs with non-notable players, this may well not be the case. We shouldn't be renaming articles just on what's interesting at the moment. I agree with Kevin: once they've been running for a bit – they still haven't played a game yet – if interest is maintained at the sort of level that makes them the clear primary target at Chester F.C., then move the page. Until then, a {{redirect}} hatnote will do.

Incidentally, the reason there are very few links to Chester F.C. is that last time this came up, a dab page was created at Chester F.C. without fixing all the links that were broken in so doing, and some poor fool went round piping them :-( cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:55, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Pretty Green that Chester F.C. should be placed on Chester F.C, not Chester F.C. (2010). I recently found out that a user had removed Chester F.C.'s re-direct to Chester City F.C. and used it for the new club. I think this makes a lot more sense as "Chester F.C." is usually at the top of Wikipedia searches. Exodus94 (talk) 10:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Nationalities

Since one of our editors finds my edit to the players' nationalities controversial, I will take the unusual step of providing sources here rather than cluttering the article.

http://uk.soccerway.com/players/stuart-graves/35279/ http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=38794 http://www.playerhistory.com/Default.aspx?page=player_details&playerID=209579 http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=6924 http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=35053 http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=38052 http://www.lancastercityfc.com/players.asp?team=1 http://www.playerhistory.com/Default.aspx?page=player_details&playerID=284339 http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=20930

I couldn't find a source for the players below but since they seem to have spent the most part of their careers in England, I have made them English. If anyone disagrees or has evidence to the contrary, feel free to amend as appropriate.

Richard Whiteside Anthony Sheehan Daniel Mahoney Stuart Jones Richie Foulkes http://www.webteams.co.uk/newsitems.aspx?team=nestonnomadsfc Eliteimp (talk) 21:46, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I make no apology for reverting postings that seemed to be based on mere assumption, and had no Wiki article to support the assertion. For those players for whom verification has now been provided, the matter is resolved: for those for whom no verification is provided, you should be aware that encyclopaedic entries should not be based on assumption, so those flags will be removed. Kevin McE (talk) 10:40, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Would you rather believe the club's site or the one you cite as RS for Stuart Graves? Kevin McE (talk) 10:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I can't see where the club's site says Graves is Welsh, but he was born in Birkenhead. Regards the other players you reverted Rigoglioso who actually had an article stating he was born in England. A cursory check on your part would have confirmed the others. Anyway, I am not aware of any precedent at other football club articles for the nationality of players to have to be cited on the page.

If you do not know enough about the club or players to know where they are from etc. can I suggest you take a step back from policing the article? After all, continued petty interference in an article you are trying to get deleted could be mistaken for WP:DISRUPT. Perhaps using a tag and/or using the talk page to point out material you take issue with would be more constructive than oportunistically seizing upon stuff and unilaterally reverting it. Thanks Eliteimp (talk) 11:30, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

As regards Graves, see the page headed "Chester FC - Players & Coaches" on chesterfc.com; what are the grounds for your assertion that he was born on Birkenhead when his club believe otherwise?

The burden of proof is on those who seek to include information, not those who seek to exclude it.

Reverting of unsourced BLP material is incumbent upon all editors.

There was lengthy discussion about the need for nationality to be verifiabl on WT:FOOTY recently. For most clubs, I would accept that referencing of nationality on the player article is sufficient, but only one of these players (I acknowledge I was in error on that one) has his own article.

What justification do you claim for posting nationalities based on nothing but assumption? Kevin McE (talk) 13:39, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I had not imagined that their nationaliities would be challenged or likely to be challenged. Obviously I hadn't reckoned on someone whose AfD request was laughed out of town now looking to undermine the article by holding it to higher standards that every other comparable article.

I took the info on Graves from welshpremier.com but if you wish to defer to the one source you have bothered to look at - a 'club website' set up last week which isn't independent - then I will accede to your greater knowledge. Stay vigilant. ThanksEliteimp (talk) 14:30, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Kevin isn't holding the article to higher standards, but to the right ones (WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:OR). I'm also a little confused by the references to an AfD request, since it was a different editor altogether who initiated the AfD and Kevin didn't even comment on it. Alzarian16 (talk) 08:12, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

It strikes me as odd that Kevin apparently hasn't applied these lofty standards to the Gillingham FC article of which he is a major editor. Nor has he delivered any pompous and ridiculous lectures to fellow editors of that article (on the issue of player nationalities, at least). He initiated a second AfD here on the spurious grounds that Chester FC have not yet played in the FA Cup. Thanks Eliteimp (talk) 09:17, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

History of Chester City F.C.

First of all hello to the chester fans out there, a Portfan here. Just been reading up on Chester randomly (probably due to having all our ex players) and i came across History of Chester City F.C.. At the moment it's pretty out of date, the last three years are non existent. Any editors out there able to update it at all or provide any sources where I could perhaps up date it? Would be a shame to leave it the way it is. If anyone takes up the offer can you give me a heads up on my talk page and i'll be happy to lend a hand. Regards Narom (talk) 21:22, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

2013-14 Season

The sub-section of the 2013-14 season hasn't been finished, does anyone with a close following to Chester want to finish it off, I don't follow Chester so if I wrote it, it would not be as accurate.Jas39 (talk) 11:09, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

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Updates required

Hi all

Complete newbie to making wholesale changes, hence me posting here...

This page needs significant editing (IMO). It is out of date & inaccurate. However, I have no technical knowledge on how to make the changes required.

Can anyone help? Either to guide me, or for me to instruct and someone else to make the edits?

Thanks

KP — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krisbuddies (talk • contribs) 10:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

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Border

Just a note to say that edits stating, in the lead section, that the ground is within Wales will be reverted as the claim is incorrect and contrary to sources. The ground - that is, the stadium as a whole - straddles the border, and the fact that the pitch - the playing surface - is in Wales is not relevant to the opening paragraph. This is explained in the main text. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:09, 9 January 2022 (UTC)