Talk:Leschi (Nisqually)

Sample Chinook version of Leschi quote

I do not know anything about your laws. I have supposed that the killing of armed men in wartime was not murder; if it was, the soldiers who killed Indians are guilty of murder too...I went to war because I believed that the Indian had been wronged by the white men, and I did everything in my power to beat the Boston soldiers, but, for lack of numbers, supplies and ammunition, I have failed. I deny that I had any part in the killing... As God sees me, this is the truth.

Halo kumtux msaika law. Naika tumtum mamook memaloose sojer kopa puk-puk time [or kopa solleks] wake mitlite "murder" [there is no Chinook word for this, directly; possibly cultus memaloose or mesachie memaloose]. Spose sojers mamook memoloose siwash - mitlite "murder"? Naika mamook solleks [or puk-puk) keschi naika tumtum kopa whitemans mamook mesachie kopa siwash. Naika konaway skookum mamook tolo kopa sojer, pe nsaika iskum hiyu man, iktas pe lebal. Naika tseepie. Halo naika wawa kopa naika mamook memaloose sojer....pe saghalie tyee nanitch maika, halo naika mamook klimmin.

This was a trial run and I'll be back; I've done the same with Sealth's speech, though not in Wikipedia. One of the points of doing this was to compare what the translator says the chief(s) said vs. what it's possible to say in the Jargon. So what's above is very rough, and is probably too literal; which in my estimation the translator wasn't being; rather providing text that sums up whatever it was the Chief had to say. It's even more pronounced with the Sealth speech, though, where there's all kinds of images and metaphors which do not exist in the Jargon, or would be very difficult to translate with the desired economy of words. "You can say anything in the Jargon is you use the right words, or enough of them", but the overall style of the Jargon was laconic and very economical on the use of words; images were more likely conveyed by gesture, which was a large part of the Jargon's mode of communication.

Of course, it might be that he made the speech in Lushootseed, in which case anything's possibleSkookum1 01:17, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Executed by territorial government?

Re the new Category:People executed by the United States federal government, while it was indeed federal troops who arrested him and the trial was held on a military base - if Steilcoom was a military base already - or was it a military court or a court of the territorial government? The appeal to the state supreme court indicates to me, though I know little of American juridicial structure, that the conviction was in state jusrisdiction, or rather in territorial jurisdiction that was inherited by the state courts: this would seem to me to be a territorial court; if it was a military one wouldn't it be the Judge Advocate General or another military justice or body the appeal would have been filed with? Just asking, but it doesn't sound right; orwere territorial courts inherently proxies of the federal govenrment; if so why wasn't the appeal federal?Skookum1 (talk) 03:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If I understand right, yes, territorial courts were "proxies" of the federal government. A territorial court was federal. Leschi's trials were not military but civil. Also, I think it wasn't federal troops who arrested him either. Rather he was betrayed by a couple Indians who overpowered him and turned him over to Gov. Stevens' militia "Volunteers". Perhaps territorial militias were also technically "federal", but it's notable that the regular US Army leaders were against putting Leschi on trial. When Leschi and his band surrendered to the regular Army east of the Cascades, Army leaders released them, letting them go home. Stevens repeatedly demanded the Army arrest Leschi (and others), prompting Colonel Casey to say no. Throughout the wars in those years (Puget Sound War, Yakima War, Cayuse, etc), there was animosity between the US Army and the governor's Volunteer militia. Army leaders made it clear that the militia was often doing more harm than good. Anyway, once Leschi was in the custody of the militia he was put in jail. I think Steilacoom became the place of trial not because it had a military post but rather because it had a jail, something Olympia lacked. On "the appeal to the state supreme court", do you mean the last minute one in 1858, which was rejected? That was the territorial supreme court. Or do you mean the "retrial" and exoneration in 2004 or so? That one is of questional legality, apparently, precisely because of the federal vs. state matter. This article says as much: "[Washington] legislators recommended the Washington Supreme Court "right a gross injustice" and annul the conviction. The court cannot set aside such a conviction because Leschi is no longer living, said Chief Justice Gerry Alexander. Moreover, the judicial body at the time was a federal territorial court and not a state court. Washington didn't become a state until 1889." And, "The judgment will have no legal standing, so the proceedings are more akin to an historical inquiry."

Anyway, long ramble short: Category:People executed by the United States federal government seems proper. Pfly (talk) 06:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Leschi was actually lynched as I recall. He had been acquitted, then retried and convicted, but was under some protection in Olympia and I think some men grabbed him, rode him up to Steilacoom and lynched him in the oak forest there by what is now American Lake.Hypatea (talk) 14:23, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

The story is told in full in Puget's Sound: A Narrative of Early Tacoma and the Southern Sound by Murray Morgan (which is where I got most of what I wrote above). I can look up whatever is needed. The first trial resulted in a hung jury, not acquittal, according to Morgan. The lynching story doesn't sound right, although the gallows may well have been crudely made--but I don't think it was a tree. I can check Morgan if you like. He's a standard historian referenced for southern Puget Sound history, isn't he? Anyway, if the State of Washington annulled the conviction (long long after the fact), wouldn't that mean there had been a conviction? Pfly (talk) 16:09, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Fire Boat

Just as a heads up, one of the Seattle city fire boats is named after Chief Leschi http://www.seattle.gov/fleetsfacilities/firelevy/facilities/marine/marinelargeplatform.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.162.178 (talk) 09:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Eatonville

Since, Eatonville was not incorporated until over 100 years after Chief Leschi was born, and it is unknown if he was born within the actual current city limits, is it really appropriate to say that he is from Eatonville? As an example, I live in a place that belonged to Mexico 150 years before I was born. Today it belongs to the United States of America. Am I from Mexico? 47.137.191.83 (talk) 01:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Well, the text in the Life section clarifies this by stating "near what is today Eatonville, Washington". Do you have a suggestion for a better wording in the {{Infobox American Indian chief}} template? Peaceray (talk) 14:35, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

South Pierce County, Washington would work. 47.137.191.83 (talk) 02:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

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