Talk:Military colours, standards and guidons

Terminology needs an introduction

This article does not take into account that the words "standards" and "colors" have very different (and much more common) uses than the way in which they are used in the article. In order to properly understand the text (without already knowing the intended meaning), it is necessary to explain what "standards" and "colors" are in this context. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:AA13:7101:7E80:E125:C624:320E:149C (talk) 22:12, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

I believe that the Sovereign's Mace of the Royal Hospital deserves to be included as part of this article, as it serves the same purpose as a regimental colour. (User:Hammersfan; 29/10/04 00:03)

Some information, like ettiquette, is only valid for one country. In this case Britian. It should be sited as such or possibly reorganized by country. 24.117.102.234 22:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Irishguardshighlanders.JPG

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Frenchcolours.gif

Image:Frenchcolours.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Colour vs. Color

The combined and apparently random choices of the british and english spellings of "color" / "colour" become very distracting and annoying while perusing this article. I propose a choice be made, one way or another, and all instances of the word on this page be changed, as well as the page title. Perhaps use "color", since colour redirects to color? 69.178.54.227 (talk) 11:11, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

As the British/international English version is used in the title that would be the best choice to save moving the article to the American spelling, doing so now. --Nate1481(^t/_c) 11:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In the UK and Commonwealth armed services it is Colour; in the US it is Color. It would be acceptable and correct to have both spellings in the article. So, for example, USMC references would be to Colors and RM Cdo references would be to Colours. --MJB (talk) 22:54, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree with Nate1481. The United States military does not call anything "colour". In the case of this article, "National Color" and similar terms are proper nouns and should be spelled as they are by the organization that uses the term.--JagSeal (talk) 03:20, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

• Which is all very well and good when there is an organizational context for the use of the word. Not every instance of the word color/colour in this article is definitely so situated, and so a general choice must be made for the overall article. I also think that switching back and forth throughout the article is a terrible idea. KDS4444^Talk 19:46, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Needs a cleanup

The article could do with a lot of cleanup. I am sure someone has access to military history texts which will go into this topic dispassionately, unlike the current state of the article. Ideally it emphasises the modern/21st century aspects of military symbology—such emphasis is not contradictory with their historical origins. French revolutionary and Soviet military colours lack a lot of the regal or religious meanings their relatives in the rest of Europe have yet are undisputably "colours" in the sense a lot of people here are thinking about. 118.90.35.155 (talk) 11:23, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Structure

Does the structure of this article follow any logic ? What is the relevance of a division between European monarchies and republics. Certain countries knew the two regimes. I'm going to clean it up. DITWIN GRIM (talk) 07:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

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National Colors = Queen's Colours?

The article makes mention that the National Colors of a US Army regiment is the equivalent of the Queen's Colours of a British Army regiment. I think this might be incorrect, because the National Colors of a US Army unit is simply the National Flag with a gold fringe and two tassels, and it is essentially the same regardless of unit and branch, from battalion all the way to big Army. In contrast, the Queen's Colours in British Army units seem to be much more personalized items, displaying the honours and badge of individual units. An equivalent flag for the British to carry would be a plain Union Jack. Civil War era US Army regiments did personalize their National Colors at times, with some units displaying battle and campaign names on their National Colors, but this practice was done away with shortly after the war if memory serves.

This may be splitting hairs, but it could be misleading for the reader. Kintrix (talk) 13:56, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

renaming

Wouldn't (Modern) MILITARY colours, standards and guidons be more apt? Junior Woodchuck (talk) 16:27, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Roman republic and roman empire?

Can anyone do a little work on the Romans? I was kind of surprised to not see them on here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cornersss (talk • contribs) 23:27, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

• Agreed. I arrived to research the well-known Roman Eagle Standard and found no mention. Still searching. Can anyone provide at least a wikilink in the article? I feel there is a place somewhere for historic standards and colors. I noticed there are old Soviet Union images included. They don't belong here as this page is written but there is currently no better place. Mensch (talk) 20:49, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

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Kings Colour Nominated (displayed in this article)

References are made to the colours displayed for New Zealand and Australia as the Kings Colour. This in incorrect as they display the Queens Crown and Cypher. The Kings Colour should display the Edwardian Crown and CR III. (William Hancock) 2001:8003:2674:E000:C10F:72BB:488B:2B2B (talk) 12:24, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Do you have any sources which indicate this? - if so I would be keen so see them. Traditionally the Sovereign's colours indicate loyalty to the current King/Queen and the insignia on the colour is not the determining factor. A recent example from the British Army website is this article where the colour of 7SCOTS is referred to as a King's colour, but the St Edward's Crown (used by Elizabeth II, as opposed to the tudor crown used by Charles III) is clearly visible on the colour. Despite a reasonable number of sources on the British Army, explicit sources for Australia and New Zealand seem hard to come by. Edwards, T. J. (1953). Standards, Guidons and Colours of the Commonwealth Forces. supports the argument that King's become Queen's colours despite any outdated insignia for commonwealth forces. It is, however, 70 years old and a bit out of date. This page from the RAAF also supports the argument, pointing out that the colour presented to them in 1952 was known as the Queen's colour even though it bore the cypher of George VI (as it was made before the King died, but presented afterwards). Similar comments for the RAN are found here. Anyway, if you have other information on this I'd be interested to know.Stanley Bannerman (talk) 23:22, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

King's Colors?

Several of the King's Colors of the UK and the Commonwealth realms still show the cipher of ERII on them. If the colors haven't been changed yet, though I'm sure they have, are they the King's colors if they don't bear his cipher? Or is it like "the queen is dead, long live the king" where the very moment ERII died all of the colors immediately passed to Charles even though nothing really happened? Jwabeck (talk) 10:56, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

You might be interested in the reply I gave to a similar question in the section immediately above this one. Stanley Bannerman (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2024 (UTC)