Talk:Crusading movement/GA4

GA Review

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Nominator: Norfolkbigfish (talk · contribs) 13:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Borsoka (talk · contribs) 04:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments After a quick read, it is clear that the article "is a long way from meeting" four "of the six good article criteria", and it "contains copyright violations", thus immediate failure is the only option. I could substatinate my statement with several examples from the article, but I mention only some of them:

• (GA1a) Typos abound: 16th century Protestant Reformation instead of "16th-century Protestant Reformation" (last sentence of the first paragraph in the article's lead), Greco-Roman Just war theory instead of "Greco-Roman just war theory" (first sentence of the second paragraph in the article's lead), penitental instead of "penitential" (fourth sentence of the second paragraph in the article's lead), penitental, Participants instead of "pentitential, participants"/"pentitential; participants"/"pentitential. Participants" (fourth sentence of the second paragraph in the article's lead), a potential solution In the latter part of the 11th century instead of "in the latter part" (third sentence in section "1.1 Penance and indulgence"), It this way... instead of "In this way..." (last sentence in the second paragraph of section "3 Legacy"), ...the increasingly frequent contact between the Latin Christian and Islamic cultures was a positive. instead of "had positive consequences" or something similar (third sentence in the third paragraph of section "3 Legacy"), etc.
• (GA1a) Several examples of unclear prose could be cited: Gregory VII offered them a potential solution In the latter part of the 11th century. This was that they too could have their sins forgiven if they supported him in fighting for papal causes, but only if this service was given altruistically. Later popes expanded on this offer to those willing to fight for their causes. Urban II launched the First Crusade at Clermont in November 1095. (First paragraph in section "1.1 Penance and indulgence") What is the difference between "papal cause" and the "their [the popes'] cause" to which the offer was expanded? Was the First Crusade Urban II's cause?
• Several sentences in the lead are not verified in the main text, in clear contradiction to WP:Lead (GA1b): The original focus and objective was the liberation of ... the sacred sites of Palestine from non-Christians. The city [Jerusalem] was considered to be Christ's legacy and it was symbolic of divine restoration.
• (GA2c) It contains unverified (and obviously absurd) claims: The crusading movement left an enduring legacy, defining western culture in the late medieval period and leaving an historical impact on the Islamic world. The impact touched every aspect of European life.; Historians have debated whether the Latin States created by the movement in the Eastern Europe were the first examples of European colonialism.
• (GA2d) Close paraphrasing can still be detected although the nominator have allegedly cleaned the article of copyvio: In theological terms, the movement merged ideas of Old Testament wars, that were believed to have been instigated and assisted by God, with New Testament ideas of forming personal relationships with Christ.; The movement enabled the papacy to consolidate its leadership of the Latin church.
• (GA3a) The article fails to mention several factors that contributed to the development of the crusading movement (e.g., development of a tripartite Mediterranean world, the takover of Mediterranean trade by Italian cities, the disintegration and crisis of the Muslim world, etc), ignoring customary approach by historians, including Asbridge 2012 (pp. 4–29), Madden 2013 (pp. 1–5), Tyerman 2019 (pp. 31–48).
• (GA3b) Irrelevant details abound in the text: These are now known as the Gregorian Reform, from a term popularised by the French historian Augustin Fliche. He named the changes after one of the leading reforming popes Gregory VII. The use of the term oversimplifies what was in fact numerous discrete initiatives, not all of which were the result of papal action.; This can be seen in a letter from Sigebert of Gembloux to Robert II, Count of Flanders. Sigebert is critical of Pope Paschal II and in congratulating Robert on his safe return from Jerusalem he pointedly omits any reference at all of the fact that Robert had been fighting on a crusade. (This sentence also fails to mention the principal message of the cited author: Sigebert rejected the concept of a penitential war (that is a crusade).
• (GA4) Several scholarly PoVs are overemphasised: The movement enabled the papacy to consolidate its leadership of the Latin church. (A contrasting view is presented by Norman Housley, also cited in the article. /Housley 2006, pp. 147–148/)

Borsoka (talk) 04:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the GA4 point, the genearal academic consensus (with caveats) is that the movement enabled greater papal control of the latin church. Namely:

The Crusades and Papal Authority

The crusading movement, beginning in the late 11th century, significantly enhanced the papacy’s power and authority within the Church. The popes' position was strengthened through their association with the crusades in several ways:

●

Assertion of Papal Primacy: Launching a major international military campaign like the First Crusade served as a potent demonstration of the pope's authority within Christendom

. Pope Urban II’s decision to call for the liberation of Jerusalem in 1095, following a Byzantine request for aid, significantly advanced the assertion of papal primacy. This move also allowed Urban II to outmaneuver his rivals, including the German emperor Henry IV and his backed anti-pope, Clement III

.

●

Crusades and Church Reform: The crusades were intertwined with the broader movement of Church reform that was already underway in the 11th century. The reforming popes, seeking to free the Church from lay control and assert its spiritual authority, found in the crusades a powerful tool to achieve their goals

. Pope Gregory VII, a key figure in the reform movement, saw holy war as a way to restore righteousness and the liberty of the Church. His successors, including Urban II, furthered this agenda by linking moral reform with military action

.

●

Control over the Laity: The crusades provided a mechanism for the popes to direct the actions of the laity, particularly the warrior class, in a way that had not been seen before

. By granting indulgences and other spiritual benefits to those who fought in the crusades, the popes were able to channel the martial energies of the nobility towards the Church’s objectives. This control extended beyond the battlefield, as popes used crusading rhetoric and institutions to intervene in disputes between secular rulers and enforce peace in Christendom

.

●

Expansion of Papal Influence: As the crusading movement evolved, popes began to extend its application beyond the Holy Land to other conflicts deemed important to the Church's interests

. This included campaigns against heretics in Europe, struggles against political opponents of the papacy, and even support for the Reconquista in Spain. While not all contemporaries agreed with this broadening of the crusade's scope, it demonstrated the papacy’s ambition to direct the affairs of Christendom

.

●

Financial and Administrative Growth: The crusades led to a significant increase in the financial resources and administrative capabilities of the papacy

. The need to fund crusades prompted the development of new systems of taxation, such as the clerical tenth, and the expansion of papal bureaucracy to manage the collection and distribution of these funds

. This financial and administrative growth, in turn, furthered the papacy's ability to assert its authority and influence within the Church and beyond.

However, the papacy's use of the crusades also had its limitations. Popular opinion did not always align with papal policy, and monarchs often pursued their own interests under the banner of the cross

. The increasing secularization of the crusading movement, evident in episodes like the Fourth Crusade, ultimately undermined its religious legitimacy and contributed to its decline. Norfolkbigfish (talk) 09:53, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

At least according to the sources in the article! Norfolkbigfish (talk) 09:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)