Talk:Daisy Bates (author)

earlier comments

Bates is called 'Daisy' throughout. I would change it to conform with the convention of using people's surnames rather than given names (do we speak of Abraham, or Lincoln?), but as I am unsure of the Wikipedia convention, and can't find it, I will only mention that I think it seems very odd. Alpheus 11:41, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

• Yes you're right, and I've fixed it. We now have the situation that she is referred to as "Bates" even before she took the name. I don't think that's a problem, but others might. Drew (Snottygobble) | Talk 03:23, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

De Vries etc

You should alter much of the early information on Bates to catch up with modern research. A book by Susanna de Vries is about to come out in 2008 which will support this. You will realise she was a liar and a serial bigamist. Firstly Bates was born as Margaret Dwyer in Roscrea, Tipperary on 16 Oct 1859. Her parents were James and Bridget Dwyer. Bates age and birthdate is no longer in doubt elswhere. Her tombstone in N Adelaide gives her age on death (April 1951) as 91 which relates exactly to the 1859 birthdate. Other information points to this birthdate, a birthday book in Streaky Bay museum and also a letter in the Zimbabwe archives to Ramon de Bertodano written in 1945 in which she says "I am approaching 86 summers" (I have a copy). She sailed steerafge on the "Almora" on the 22 November 1882 from Plymouth arriving at Townsville on 15 Jan 1883.There is a diary written by a cabin passager in the Queensland Archive of this voyage in which she is mentioned. Essntially she was very poor and the passages about enjoying the high life and losing money in investments is rubbish. She married Ernest Clark Baglehole on 10 June 1885 at St Stephen's Church Newtown as a spinster and giving her birthplace as ireland and her father as James E O'Dwyer as usual. it is quite possible that she also contracted other marriages in her trip to England 1894-99. ther is much more but hopefully you will amend the article. Joseph West (talk) 09:41, 17 December 2007 (UTC)Joseph West

Thanks Joseph. I have no objection to you adding the material above WRT to Baglehole and date of birth etc. We need to ensure that everything is reliably sourced and don't start speculating about "possible" other marriages, although I'd also read somewhere about an engagement to a Philip Gipps in 1884/85. If there's anything like that, discuss it here first. —Moondyne 00:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

De Vries has been added to 'further reading' - it might help any further editoras of this article to backup some of the perosnal life issues - also the whole article needs a 'lack in text cites' as well SatuSuro 13:48, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Attitude to people of part Aboriginal descent and her "erroneous" credit

I have added the Perth Sunday Times quote in order to make clear why Daisy Bates is not necessarily regarded as a heroine by all indigenous Australians, many of whom are of part Aboriginal descent.--Jbeureka (talk) 06:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I cannot find any support for the statement that Bates' remark that "the only good half-caste is a dead one" was erroneously attributed to her. In fact the account in Daisy Bates: Grand Dame of the Desert by Bob Reece includes her response to James Harris strong rebuke of her remark, which is difficult to interpret in any other way than her endorsement of the remark. in the absence of any evidence to the contrary I am inclined to remove the reference to "erroneous". Cabrils (talk) 23:56, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

I've removed it. The confusion seems to have been over where she made the remark: Not in her June 1921 article but in her reply to Harris. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 03:31, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Daisy's income

From the article, referring to the 1930s:

Later the Commonwealth Government paid her a stipend of $4 a week to assist her in putting all her papers and notes in order and prepare her manuscript. But with no other income it was impossible for her to remain in Adelaide so she moved to the village settlement of Pyap on the Murray River where she pitched her tent and set up her typewriter.

No other income struck me as a little odd because I would have thought that given her age and poverty she would have been getting the Age Pension. The Australian Bureau of Statistics gives a good roundup of eligibility here http://abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/b4005c38619c665aca25709000203b8d/8e72c4526a94aaedca2569de00296978!OpenDocument

Depending on her situation with assets, age-wise she would have been eligible from 1919. Or did she reject a pension?

The other thing that I wonder is whether she was receiving any royalties for her book, The Passing of the Aborigines? According to the State Library of Victoria catalogue there were three editions of the book before her death in 1951 - the first in 1939, then 1944 and again in 1947.

Would she not have recieved a pension if she was earning a mite by journalism? Was she receiving any income from The Advertiser, or just given a desk?

I have no idea what the answer is here, I just raise it as a query.

Lenore10 (talk) 14:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Bias

this article has bias as seeing Daisy as savior of aboriginal people but sources indicate otherwise especially from the aboriginal perspective "BLACK MAN'S BURDEN". The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954). Perth, WA: National Library of Australia. 10 March 1928. p. 18. Retrieved 15 May 2014. I htink there should be something more substantive about this facet. Gnangarra 12:51, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Daisy Bates isnt a placename so why is it disambiguated like she is one, surely a more appropriate disambiguation can be used. Gnangarra 14:13, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

WP:NCPDAB says that the disambiguator "is usually a noun indicating what the person is noted for being in his or her own right". I suggest that Daisy Bates (anthropologist) best encapsulates her notability. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:58, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

I would support a move to (anthropologist). AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:33, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Her notability at different stages of her life, and since does not make her an anthropologist at all, she has been described as much as a welfare worker and writer - however the ADB article identifies her as such. For most of the time since her death mainstream anthropologists have either ignored, denigrated or downplayed her role and work, and a considerable number of aboriginals have questioned her work. A genuinely neutral NPOV application should identify her as a writer and be less POV JarrahTree 01:40, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

I make no comment about the relative merits of "writer" vs "anthropologist", but (per Gnangarra's original comment) either would be better than "Australia". Mitch Ames (talk) 04:03, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

I've moved the page to Daisy Bates (Australian author). —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:17, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Moved a second time to Daisy Bates (author) since the only other Daisy Bates with their own article is better known as an activist than an author. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:05, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

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Bigamous Marriage(s)

It has been suggested that Bates's second marriage was not in fact bigamous, as her first marriage was technically illegal due to Morant apparently being underage (see Joe West and Roger Roper, 'Breaker Morant: The Final Roundup' (Amberley Publishing, 2016). I have amended the description of her marriages accordingly, but if any disagreements due to other evidence, please do say ... Jay4283 (talk) 18:02, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Additional source

• Jones, Philip (2018). "The magic garb of Daisy Bates". Ochre and Rust: Artefacts and Encounters on Australian Frontiers. London, UK: Hurst & Company. pp. 283–304. ISBN 978-1-84-904839-2.

This is a recently published work that could be useful for developing the article. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:14, 1 April 2019 (UTC)