Talk:Decker Eveleth

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Nice work!

BastianMAT (talk) 05:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Global Times response

@Amigao: -- neither #2 or #3 of WP:ABOUTSELF applies here. As I mentioned, the claim that the source is supporting is the existence of the article itself, not a "claims about third parties" nor "claims about events not directly related to the source" -- the claims are that the source exists, which it self-referentially does. Even if it did apply, this would be a clearcut IAR example -- there's simply no issue of reliability or verifiability involved when the usage of the source is only to confirm the existence of the source: that is the core reason behind WP:ABOUTSELF/WP:SELFSOURCE in the first place, not to mention . I'd respectfully ask you to revert and reinstate the source. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 04:37, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

In the meantime, I've reinstated a modified version of the claim, that does not include the quote of the Global Times response. This should address the ABOUTSELF concerns: "The analysis prompted official condemnation from the Chinese Communist Party" is wholly sourceable to Cipriani, while "through an editorial from Party Committee Secretary Hu Xijin in the Global Times" does not implicate either #2 or #3 of WP:ABOUTSELF as the claim simply identifies the source's author (not a third party, nor an event). However I stand by my position that the original version was acceptable and believe the article is lessened by not including the full quote. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 04:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

A Hu Xijin op-ed piece does not necessarily signify "official condemnation from the Chinese Communist Party" at all. Keep in mind that Hu Xijin has been censored by CCP authorities and was censored again fairly recently. - Amigao (talk) 05:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Hu Xijin is a spokesperson for the CCP, and reliable sources refer to it as condemnation. If your quibble is about the wording of that portion, then your issue isn't actually with WP:ABOUTSELF at this point and instead of reverting entirely, you should have suggested alternative language.⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 05:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Not exactly. Hu Xijin is not an official spokesperson for the CCP even when he served as editor-in-chief of the Global Times (which he no longer does). It is also worth adding that Global Times is one of many CCP-owned newspapers. It is a tabloid often used to express hardline opinions, but it cannot be said to be the official line of the CCP. The People's Daily is considered more authoritative and representative of the official CCP position. - Amigao (talk) 05:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

OK and now you've reverted three times, including telling me to take it to talk discussion....without having participated in that discussion. Or taken steps to initiate that discussion yourself, which would have been the polite thing to do. And you're saying that a reliable source stating that something is a directly described by a reliable source as a "condemnation" from a person who is verifiable a Party Committee Secretary and is publisher of the party's media outlet, is not an "official condemnation"? Unless you're nitpicking over the word official, there's no grounds for reverting without discussion here. This is becoming disruptive. Stop, and talk about this, or we're going to go to an edit warring report next. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 05:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

The way you wish to use a WP:DEPREC source such as WP:GLOBALTIMES goes beyond WP:ABOUTSELF. I would recommend you seek further clarification on WP:RSN regarding use of deprecated sources in this fashion. - Amigao (talk) 05:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

There's absolutely no policy basis for that claim. Please tell me which element of WP:ABOUTSELF is not met by the modified version? And one last attempt at compromise before I fire off a WP:ANEW submission, will you revert further if use a non-Global Times source? ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 05:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

A non-Global Times source would be fine here. - Amigao (talk) 05:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Is The analysis prompted condemnation from former Party Committee Secretary Hu Xijin in the Global Times (with refs to Cipriani and the WSJ) -- good enough for you?⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 06:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

WSJ is a WP:GREL source so that's great. I would personally phrase it as "The analysis prompted condemnation from Hu Xijin, former editor-in-chief and Chinese Communist Party Committee Secretary of the Global Times." Otherwise, it looks fine. - Amigao (talk) 06:42, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

OK, I've integrated it back in using your version. It reads a bit awkwardly to me that former editor-in-chief comes before the Party Committee Secretary link and not directly preceding "of the Global Times" but that's a minor nitpick. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 07:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)