Talk:Demographics of Birmingham

Requested move 3 April 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:56, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

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• Demography of Birmingham → Demographics of Birmingham
• Demography of Cumbria → Demographics of Cumbria
• Demography of England → Demographics of England
• Demography of Greater Manchester → Demographics of Greater Manchester
• Demography of Liverpool → Demographics of Liverpool
• Demography of Sheffield → Demographics of Sheffield
• Demography of Slough → Demographics of Slough
• Demography of the Roman Empire → Demographics of the Roman Empire
• Demography of the United Kingdom → Demographics of the United Kingdom

– The difference, as I understand it, is the difference in presenting the "demographic study of ..." and the "demographic statistics of ..." The articles are not, at least substantially, about the way the information was assembled but what the findings were. This is as per the large number of articles with titles: "Demographics .." and as per other contents accessed via Category:Demographics by country. GregKaye 13:26, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Oppose I do not believe that is the difference, but that it is a matter of US and British usage. Demography is much more common in the UK and so appropriate for these articles.--SabreBD (talk) 13:44, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose (edit conflict)This was discussed less than a year ago, in July 2014 - see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 16#"Demography" being changed to "Demographics" as a section heading, which concerned article titles as well as section headings. As regards consistency, our guidance for UK settlement articles is to use "demography" as a section heading. The distinction made by GregKaye above was explored in that discussion and found to be a matter of WP:ENGVAR. NebY (talk) 13:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Sabrebd, NebY Thank you, I'm happy for this to come to a swift close if helpful. GregKaye 14:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose As per SabreBD and NebY. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 14:16, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
• Comment In case this ever comes up again I think that it is worth commenting that, in the linked discussion above, the justifying text reads, "Interestingly a TIME magazine article calls David Coleman "professor of demographics" at Oxford, but Oxford calls him "Professor of Demography". There is clearly a bias, as a google search for "Professor of Demographics" turns up more US institutions and for "Professor of Demography" includes most of the British institutions. However, most interestingly "Professor of Demographics" only gets 17,600 results, while Professor of Demography gets 200,000 results." The argument remains that Demography represents the subject of study while demographics represents the resulting "statistics". GregKaye 19:44, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
• Comment I saw the title and I thought, that's so weird, it must be ENGVAR. And I think it is... Red Slash 23:54, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm English and the subject area is definitely demograhy. The designation for the result of the study is debatable. GregKaye 21:52, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose - Unless we also change economy to economics, geography to geographics etc. --Ykraps (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
• I'm glad that I stumbled across this discussion, because I often edit the demography sections of articles and I've been wondering what the correct word to use is for a while. I wasn't quite convinced by the British/American English argument, and was inclined to agree with Greg that demography is the subject area and demographics the resultant statistics. However, checking the OED, it defines the former as follows:

1.
a. The study of human populations, esp. the study of statistics, such as numbers of births and deaths, the incidence of disease, or rates of migration, which illustrate the changing size or composition of populations over time.
b. The composition of a particular human population.
2. Biol. The scientific study of the size and composition of populations of plants or animals, esp. in terms of their ages or developmental stages. Also: the size and composition of such a population, esp. of a particular organism.

So I think I now agree that "demography" can be correctly used to refer to the resulting statistics in British English. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

• For completeness, here's the definition of demographics:

1. The study of the human population and its composition; (now typically in advertising and market research) spec. (orig. U.S.) the study of statistical data concerning the composition or characteristics of a television or other audience, the market for a product, etc. Cf. demography n. 1a.
2. orig. U.S. Chiefly in advertising and market research: statistical data relating to a human population and particular groups within it; the composition or characteristics of such a population or group, esp. a television or other audience, the market for a product, etc. Cf. demography n. 1b.

So it seems that either demography or demographics can be used to refer to either the subject or the statistics, with the latter being more common in American English. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:01, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks Cordless Larry. I'd consider that both can be correctly used to refer to the resulting statistics in British English and I think that the current case is one of optional use. I minor argument remains that commonality of phrasing may make contexts like categories a little more comprehendable but its no biggie. I say this as a Brit. I certainly think that it would be worth moving the Roman empire article. GregKaye 10:12, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
  • No worries, Greg. Like I said, this has cleared up some confusion I had myself, so it's been helpful. Perhaps a separate request could be set up for the Roman Empire one? Cordless Larry (talk) 10:24, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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