Talk:Erica Kane and Dimitri Marick

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move. Cúchullain ^t/c 14:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

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Dimitri Marick and Erica Kane → Erica Kane and Dimitri Marick or Erica and Dimitri – Erica Kane must go first because she is a prominent character. Dimitri is just one of Erica's foils for her needs. There are no naming guidelines about fictional characters and couples, and WP:NCP does not apply. Must every article start with a male before female, especially since there are same-sex couples, like Luke Snyder and Noah Mayer and Bianca Montgomery and Maggie Stone? Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 12:00, 13 July 2012 (UTC) --George Ho (talk) 20:26, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Well argued. Anyway, I'm pedantic enough to prefer alphabetical order. --BDD (talk) 17:55, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
• Comment. I'm not sure about moving it to where Erica's name comes first. Yes, Erica is significantly more famous/more popular, but I still don't feel that that's a strong enough reason for this article to deviate away from all other heterosexual fictional couple articles having the male's name come before the female's name. I'm the one who moved it (in 2008) away from Erica's name coming first...so that it wouldn't be the only such article going by that format. If we do this with Erica, then what about any other heterosexual fictional couple article? Do we go on which of the two is more popular? And if we do, how will we know which is more popular if sources don't clearly show us? Most cases are not as clear-cut as this one. Do we just let editors decide which character name they want to come first? George speaks of same-sex fictional couple articles. Well, for Lena Kundera and Bianca Montgomery and Reese Williams and Bianca Montgomery, two same-sex couples, although Bianca is more famous/more popular, we use her lovers' names in these two cases first because the couple names starting with her lovers' names are more popular. Those names are Lianca and Rianca, as opposed to, for example, "Breese" for "Bianca and Reese." Flyer22 (talk) 01:02, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

And, although I know what George meant, I just want to point out that Dimitri Marick is a prominent character as well. Flyer22 (talk) 01:11, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

As I said in WP:naming conventions (characters), if both characters in a heterosexual relationship are equally prominent, and no reliable sources are found to determine who must go first AFTER finding all sources, then a man may go first if there are no other choices left. As for name meshing, I don't know why Reese or Lena go first, and I don't know why name meshing is a reason for titling these articles this way. Their backstories are added just to spice up these stories, but that's all I can say. Dimitri is prominent, but how is he prominent either more than Erica or equally as she? --George Ho (talk) 01:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

By the way, the one I linked to is an essay. --George Ho (talk) 01:31, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Also, when I was in a chatroom, I was told that putting a man first before woman just because he is a man is original research. Well, previous revisions told readers to put man first, but I realize that would be OR. Therefore, prominence is key, regardless of name-meshing. --George Ho (talk) 01:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what else to state on this matter, George. And as for the same-sex examples, people call Bianca and Lena "Lianca" more than they call them by any other name. "Lianca" is short for "Lena and Bianca," not "Bianca and Lena." The same goes for "Rianca" being for "Reese and Bianca," of course, not "Bianca and Reese." That's why those two articles are titled with Bianca's lovers' names coming first. And we certainly weren't going to have the articles titled by the portmanteaux. But, anyway, I don't know what else to tell you regarding my feelings about it not making much sense to have this one fictional couple article's heading structurally deviate from all the other heterosexual fictional couple articles. I'm not about to fight you on this particular instance. I just wanted to comment and move on. And "prominence is key" is also original research. Like you stated, "There are no naming guidelines about fictional characters and couples." Well, except for WP:COMMONAME. You should see if most sources refer to this couple as "Dimitri and Erica" or as "Erica and Dimitri." Flyer22 (talk) 01:44, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

In response, 27say "Dimitri and Erica", and 60 say "Erica and Dimitri". One says "Erica Kane and Dimitri Marick"; none says "Dimitri Marick and Erica Kane". --George Ho (talk) 02:02, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I have changed my proposal because of sources. --George Ho (talk) 02:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Then I'd say that is a better argument to go ahead with your original move request. I'm against shortening it to simply Erica and Dimitri because they aren't as famous/popular of a couple as Luke and Laura. Flyer22 (talk) 02:15, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

And don't forget the sources in this article. The first one lists Erica's name first, which I believe is why Rocksey originally titled this article with Erica's name first. Flyer22 (talk) 02:22, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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