Talk:Dori Monson

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Controversy

OnceASpy you need to revert your latest change and discuss here or I'll have to report you for edit warring as it's not only me but Huangdi and 98.225.20.168 that have disagreed with your changes yet you've reverted us and not discussed it here as you are suppose to as per WP:BRD. You are adding unsourced information to downplay the controversy, pushing a WP:NPOV. You need to discuss here before you can maybe have the information added as Wikipedia works by concensus. NZFC^(talk) 00:04, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The source cited is unreliable and pushing an agenda. Instead of deleting the entire controversy which I should, I'm giving proper context. By leaving out the fact that what he said was a joke you are completely changing the intention of what was said. You can feel free to stop edit warring any time. OnceASpy (talk) 00:49, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

First how is the source unreliable? And next your context isn't in the source. So unless you have one that says he was only joking. Then it has to be removed. NZFC^(talk) 00:59, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

The source is a left wing activist rag. Youd know this if you read it. OnceASpy (talk) 01:17, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Just cause you don't like a source doesn't mean it is unreliable and can't be referenced. There is no reference that the comment he made was said in jest. NZFC^(talk) 07:55, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Its a comedy show. You don't need to cite comedy. You're just trying to edit war at this point. OnceASpy (talk) 18:59, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

I didn't revert your latest change so appears others disagree with you and you are suppose to reference stuff that you add, like what type of radio show he hosts seeing as it appears the show is political not comedy. You are suppose to gain consensus on Wikipedia and you haven't got it for this change. NZFC^(talk) 19:16, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Looks like the nontroversies that I originally said should be deleted, have been. Go find another article to war in. OnceASpy (talk) 21:01, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Read WP:CIVIL NZFC^(talk) 21:03, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Libertarian

We should be careful using WP:LABEL unless they are sourced. It really shouldn't be in the lede when even the comment that he sees himself as a Libertarian in the actual article is unsourced as well. Thirdly, it is always better to use independent reliable sources that say what someone is when applying a label. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 21:44, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Actually I removed the other mention of Libertarian as it has also been unsourced since May 2014 and from a quick search, I couldn't find a reliable source that stated that he was. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 22:23, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

OnceASpy, how do you justify those reverts. Libertarian is unsourced, that other stuff has been unsourced since 2024 and those citation tags where valid. I do note your edit history is heavily weighted towards this article and I remind you that you don't WP:OWN. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 00:17, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

It's in the source. You're edit warring and nitpicking to argue semantics. The subject of the article states he's a libertarian daily on his daily radio show. I know what you're doing. Anyone reading your edits knows what you're doing. OnceASpy (talk) 01:32, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

What source? Doesn't matter what you know, it is what is verifiable. It also doesn't explain your other reverts of unsourced information. Guess people who look into this page if it's taken to WP:DRN will see you have WP:OWN issues and an agenda too. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 01:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

My agenda is giving simple, verifiable facts. You admitting to an agenda other than that is a violation of NPV OnceASpy (talk) 03:15, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

and I ask again OnceASpy since you want to give verifiable information, where is the source that starts he is a Libertarian? Or that the team he coached won that championship or that he voted for Bob Barr? If you are going to revert me and tell me it's because it's sourced information, then you need to provide a source as it's not in the article. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 04:57, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

So OnceASpy have you got the source for him being a Libertarian or not as none of the sources in the article state that he is. I found one that mention the vote for Bob Barr and other that said he coached girls basketball but not one that said at Shorecrest High School or he won the championship. So I would ask that you either provide a source or revert the comments in the article that he is Libertarian.

So OnceASpy, can you explain the revert? There is no source for him being a libertarian? NZFC^(talk)(cont) 00:25, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

It is amply documented. OnceASpy (talk) 00:47, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

OnceASpy Where? What source? I have gone through everyone in the article and not one of them states that he considers himself, "right-leaning," "center right," and "libertarian". So I would like you to link me to the source even one source that backs it up? NZFC^(talk)(cont) 00:52, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Also note I have asked for a third opinion since we seem to be at a stand-still and I don't want to get into an edit war over it. I'll happily let it stay but I can't see a source for it. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 00:54, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Your third opinion has arrived: Given that I can't see how self-sourcing in this circumstance would violate any of the conditions at WP:SELFPUB, Monson can be used as the source for "libertarian" in the lead. @NZFC: please do not remove "libertarian" from the lead. @OnceASpy: please ref Monson as his own source, either in writing, a transcript, or audio from his broadcast (see [[1]]). Please keep in mind that this must come from a reasonably reliable source (i.e. an official website of Monson, etc). Please do not hesitate to respond or ask if either of you have questions. - Dmezh (talk) 07:15, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you Dmezh If OnceSSpy can provide a source even if its Monson himself, then I'm happy for the libertarian tag to stay. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 09:54, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Fourth opinion @NZFC, OnceASpy, and Dmezh: in my non-binding opinion, unsourced political statements should be immediately removed from a BLP (WP:BLPREMOVE). In the interests of peace amongst editors you might wait 24 hours for the statements to be cited, but I wouldn't wait any longer before removing all unsourced statements of political views. The statements should have inline citations, including in the lede since this has proven controversial. I would also advise to be cautious whether these are the person's actual political beliefs or those of a fictionalized version of themselves they play on their show (see Stephen Colbert). – Reidgreg (talk) 16:01, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Reidgreg, Dmezh. Thoughts on OnceASpy keeping libertarian label but still refusing to add source even Monson himself or discussing it here. NZFC^(talk)(cont) 22:16, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

It looks like a reliable source has been added to support it in the body of the article. The question now is whether the material in the body (and from that source) is adequately summarized by "Dori Monson is a libertarian" in the lede, and whether this is a defining characteristic of the person to be noted in the first sentence (WP:LEADSENTENCE). (I'm not going to check the Youtube source which should ideally be cited with the |quote= parameter.) – Reidgreg (talk) 12:51, 26 August 2018 (UTC)