Talk:Dud Dudley

Alterations

Further details might be available at Balliol itself, I dont know...

Balliol College Oxford: [1]

I have contributed this article without further study, perhaps the good Wikifairy could finish it? User Faedra, all the best.

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I've removed the following passage, of no obvious relevance:

In 1722 it was ordered that "iron work at Deptford, Woolwich, and Chatham was to be wrought up under a Master Smith selected from persons fitly qualified." Thomas Dudley was given the first appointment of Master Smith at Chatham Dockyard, in 1723 and retained this position until 1746.

This would only be relevant if there is some known relationship between Dudd Dudley and Thomas Dudley. -- Jmabel 17:15, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

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Copied from my talk page:

I note with some concern that for a time now your observations about my item 'Dudd Dudley' remain on the Wikipedia:Cleanup page. I have checked my work and to the best of my knowledge it does not infringe any copyright. Further no one else has challenged this, so if you dont mind would you please remove your reference in that listing, or at least specify the cause of your concern....

All the best Faedra 11:40, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

<end copied passage>

Faedra, I've wikified and removed from cleanup, but here is why I had my copyright question: this is a rather detailed article on an obscure topic, and gives no references at all, not even for what claims to be a direct quotation. Surely you have this material from somewhere. Please give references! If you are not familiar with how to cite references in Wikipedia, just dump whatever you have here in the talk page and I will integrate it into the article appropriately. -- Jmabel 17:20, Jun 18, 2004 (UTC)

REPLY:

Thank you for questions and wikification on Dudd Dudley. Answer is simply that I have spent a lot of time researching the Dudley family, and some of my references are lost. (careless, but when I was undertaking the study I did not consider it would ever be used). It is an obscure subject, but this gives it more urgency in my mind as a thing to do. The item is my own work, the quotes are actually from his 'Metallum Martis', or a transcript of it I have read somewhere.Faedra 13:10, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

All the best and thanks again...

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So are the quotations approximate and from memory, in which case they should not be given as direct quotations? -- Jmabel 16:34, Jun 21, 2004 (UTC)

References

I have looked at this in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography which is a useful reference that I shall add. However, that article nowhere mentions the word "coke" but refers to smelting with pit-coal. It also notes that Dudley's purported process is not recorded in his book so we do not know exactly what he did. Further note that the article on Abraham Darby I claims that no-one had previously had much success with coke. Oh dear! More work! Cutler 15:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Here's one obvious source [2] Cutler 15:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

This issue is dealt with in 'Dud Dudley's contribution'. There is no indication what he did in the 1620s, except that he used pitcoal. However, in the 1670s, he was coaling wood and pitcoal together. This suggests the use of coke earlier. I do not think he could have made pig iron with raw (pit)coal. Its use only became possible after the ontroduction of hot blast in the 1830s. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Dudd or Dud

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:56, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
All the sources, and ODNB, seem to spell him Dud; why are we using Dudd? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 03:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I am actually responsible for the ODNB article, and so am prejudiced. I consider "Dud" the best version, but his name appears in a number of forms, including Dud, Dodo and Dudonius. I think he was probably christened Dudley Tomlinson (but no one has traced his baptism), the forename reflecting Lord Dudley being his father. As a young man, he was very much part of his father's family, but probably estranged from them following litigation in the 1630s. This may have led him to adopt versions of his name more remote from that of his paternal family. Dodo refers to a legendary builder of Dudley Castle, who almost certainly did not build it, but that name is (or was thought to be) the first element of the place-name Dudley. I would be happy for the article to be moved to Dud Dudley (currently a redirect). However, I have merely improved the article; I was not its creator, so I will leave others to make the move. Peterkingiron (talk) 21:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Move requested as below, since Dud Dudley was extensively edited before the two articles were merged. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Survey

• Support as nom.Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
• Support for reasons given above. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:58, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Please make comments longer than a sentence or so here.

Are Dodo and Dudonius found in English, or only in Latin? In Latin, they are evidence that the inscription classicized the name, not of estrangement. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:09, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Not sure. Estrangement might be regarded as WP:OR. You may be right about these forms being latinisations. One of them certainly appears on his (or rather his 1st wife's) funerary monument in St Helens Church, Worcester. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Age?

Born 1600, but 20 years old in 1618. Can't both be right... CulturalSnow (talk) 12:38, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Latin memorial

In St. Helen's, Worcester, where he had erected a monument to his first wife, bearing the following Latin inscription:

Dodo Dudley chiliarchi nobilis Edwardi nuper domini de Dudley filius, patri charus et regiae Majestatis fidissimus subditus et servus in asserendo regem, in vindicando ecclesiam, in propugnando legem ac libertatem Anglicanam, saepe captus, anno 1648, semel condemnatus et tamen non decollatus, renatum denuo vidit diadaema hic inconcussa semper virtute senex.

I think that the article would be improved if an English translation was provided. -- PBS (talk) 15:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

The tail end of the inscription is rather hard to follow. Basically,

Dud Dudley, son of the late noble Edward of Dudley, baron ("chiliarch" is some kind of military title, literally "commander of a thousand men") dear to his father and most faithful subject and servant to His Majesty the King, in vindicating the church, in fighting for English law and liberty; often captured, in the year 1648 once condemned nevertheless not beheaded; born again, as an old man he sees an unshakeable crown.

Hope this helps. Not sure of the exact reading of the last bit but that seems to be the sense of it. The transcription in the article has a number of typos which I corrected in this version (regem, vindicando) I could not make out the text on the image, unfortunately. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 16:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks I have included it. -- PBS (talk) 16:40, 19 September 2017 (UTC)