Talk:Lord Dunmore's War

Name of war

Why move this? Lord Dunmore's War is traditional. Septentrionalis 21:48, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. Every source I know of refers to it as Lord Dunmore's War. Obviously not the references listed here. I guess that's what redirects are for, right? Mingusboodle (talk) 03:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

POV- british settlers

"The context of the conflict resulted from escalating violence between British colonists who in accordance with previous treaties were exploring and moving into land south of the Ohio River—modern West Virginia and Kentucky—and American Indians who held treaty rights to hunt there. "

The tribes in West Virginia were the Mingo and Shawnee, and they signed no treaty with the British agreeing to give up their lands/ allow settlers into their territories. Nothing particularly new here- it was a war of conquest between a more technologically advanced and numerous invader and a weaker foe. The Treaty of Fort Stanwix was simply a figleaf, and the article on the treaty correctly states that the inhabitants of the disputed territories were not party to the treaty.

If there is no disagreement, the change proposed is:

"The conflict resulted from escalating violence between British colonists who were exploring and moving into land of present day West Virginia under a treaty that was signed with indian tribes who didn't live there. "

Mak (talk) 19:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

1774 - Lord Dunmore to Col. Andrew Lewis. July 24, 1774 From Documentary History of Dunmore's War, edited by Reuben Gold Thwaites and Louise Phelps Kellogg (Madison: Wisconsin Historical Society, 1905), p. 97-98

SIR - I received your's and Colo. Charles Lewis Letters. the general Confederacy of Different Indian Nations their repeated Hostilities (there were six Men. Murdered on Dunkard Creek on the l8th instant) the Discovery of Indians & universal Alarm throughout all the frontiers of the Colony & the unhappy situation of the Divided People settled over the Alagany Mountain's makes it necessary for [me to] go in Person to Fort Dunmore to put Matters under the best Regulation to Support that Country for a Barrier [and] give the Enemies a Blow that will Breake the Confederacy & render their plans abortive I intend to take as [many] men from this quarter as I Can get in order in some [so] short time &. Desire you to raise a respectable Boddy of Men and join me either at the mouth of the greate Kanaway or Waiten as is most Convenient for you. the Indians having Spies on the Frontiers the[y] may Bring all. the Force of the Shawnees against you in your march to the Mouth of the Kenawey so I would have you Consider in What Time You Could get them and other things ready so to meet me at eny Place at Ohio in as Short time as you Can let me know the Same by the return of the express and forward the Letter to Colo. Wm. Preston with the greatest Dispatch as I want his Assistance as well as that of your Brother, Charles Lewis. the Expense of the Numerous scouting Parties in the Different Counties forming an Expensive Frontere Will soon exceed the Expences of an Expedition Against their Towns which will be more effectiaul & we may as well depend on the House of burgess providing for the Expedition as for a greater Expence of Acting on the Defensive at any rate we know the Old Law [is] Still in force as far as it goes we are sure of being reimbersed I wish you would Acquaint Colo. Preston of Contents of this Letter that those he Sends Out may joine you and Pray be as explicit as you Can as to the time & place of Meeting I need not inform You how necessary Dispatch is. I am Sir Your Most Obt. & very Hbl. Ser DUNMORE WINCHESTER July 24th 1774

Now, General Lewis also herded some 100 head of cattle and other livestock to the Point of the Kanawha River where the proposed 14th colony capitol would become, the place of the "Battle of Point Pleasant". His brigade moved down the Kanawha on a general Indian path now called US 60 or near it. His Companies moved in groups, not in mass while each Company transported the wares and livestock. There were a few Native American who also Scouted for him who had served with him in the French and Indian War's "Big Sandy Expedition", 1756. We at the local museum figure he gain experience from this French and Indian War expedition when at that time they ran out of food.

Removed text that is beyond scope of the actual article

These Virginians had been coming to the Kanawha Valley Region "to Treat" (Celeron's term) since the days of Abraham Woods and legends have it earlier. See WIKI articles West Virginia Prehistory, West Virginia Waterways and Monetons Conaughy (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Accuracy

Per the above discussion and those at Mingo and Logan, I have added an {{Accuracy}} tag. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 18:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The material is not normally found in main stream publications. See the following articles West Virginia Prehistory, West Virginia Waterways and Monetons. I am eager to remove anything you suspect or disagree. The main importance in this research has nothing to do with providing WIKIPEDIA this research. It is in benefit for our state's scholars in studies. I removed these once before and was asked to return the material by Wikipedians. As said, I'll gladly retract any and all I've shared here. The sharing of biblio and source was not originally meant for WIKI. This may have been a mistake on my part in sharing sources with WIKI editors which was orginally meant with local universities scholars of anthropology and history. Their kind of "Papers" are not wrote for popular reading, but, for those in the field of study. Again, delete what you understand not which will save me from deleting everything. Simply take the time to edit it...sometimes, banner placing on an article is meaningless. It's easier to delete the whole thing than guess which may or may not be the objection. I've been "myth busting" our local stories for over four decades in these subject maters and some tellings have credence and other do not. Please delete that of which you do not like for in some of our clans it becomes political, anyways. Conaughy (talk) 22:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed unnecessary biblio, I did not write the suspected sentenses, but just the quote blocks for clarity. I'm not sure how to assist in finding credibility of suspect sentenses through which citations may or may not apply from my own research notes. I could paraphrase what I am sometimes asked to lecture here at the museum or that of which appears across the street at the State Park of the "Battle of Point Pleasant". But, I have not the authority other than occasional assisting those historians of the State's Cultural Center. There have been several versions or "treatments" written in times passing about Dunmore's War. I mean not to offend by providing citations from and regardless of which "version" one is reading and may or may not be citing which source. Conaughy (talk) 00:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyvios?

Under section Mobilization and movement there is a blockquote from a book (12 lines of text) that doesn't qualify as "fair use" for criticism or commentary - it's used as an expository part of the article, and properly cited. But citing doesn't excuse a copyvio. That text has been there a long time, and I'm loathe to delete it without some further corroboration. If it is deleted, we need to fill in there. Anyone?Sbalfour (talk) 22:41, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Deleted. Upon review, it is blatent copyvio, besides sheer speculation without any documentary evidence to support it.Sbalfour (talk) 21:59, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

There's yet another chunk of text directly above it, copied from another book. I'm blockquoting it to make it stand as a quote, until I can verify that it's a copyvio, too.Sbalfour (talk) 22:24, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Focus of the article

Lord Dunmore's War is basically the Battle of Point Pleasant, about which there is only about half a paragraph. There is stultifying detail including primary documents pasted into the article, about the preliminaries, Cresap's War, etc. I think we can shrink this stuff down by a factor of at least 3, and expand the actual war/battle part. The article needs revamped for focus and proper exposition.Sbalfour (talk) 22:02, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

@Sbalfour: I know it's been years, but are you still interested in cleaning this up? This article has gotten my attention and I have some time to help. In some other articles we've cleaned up, I've started by simply trying to get everything in some sort of order. If I can re-arrange things so they're more or less chronological, is that a good place to start? Canute (talk) 14:07, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I've put in some legwork on this article to make it chronological. Any help is welcome. I'm not the caretaker of the article (no one is). So yes. chronology is a good place to start. The bare couple of sentences on the Battle of Point Pleasant could be a major section if expanded, and certainly should be. The McDonald's stuff is new to me - did he report to Dunmore? Sbalfour (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Motivation?

I recently read that part of Dunmore's motivation to engage the Shawnee was to inhibit or obviate any claim(s) Pennsylvania might make in Ohio Country. If anyone has a reference, cite it here, and I'll write up a paragraph, Sbalfour (talk) 20:18, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I've been trying to figure out what to call Pennsylvania. They weren't a belligerent in the war, but they certainly seem to be an antagonist against Virginia stemming from their border dispute. Pennsylvanians took deliberate actions that made things more difficult for Virginia. I'm not sure what the right term is. Canute (talk) 19:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Cresap's raids section

Cresap's raids section is the longest in the article, and only minorly relevant. There were two events, and the whole section could be shrunk to a couple of sentences about those, similar to the ones about the preceding Boone party attack. I struggle thru the section trying to divine something singularly important, when there just isn't. Sbalfour (talk) 19:28, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

McDonald Expedition

Angus McDonald is listed in the infobox under commanders & leaders, but he is not mentioned in the article. I have added a brief paragraph about his expedition against the Shawnee, which preceded the Battle of Point Pleasant. It needs more work. Canute (talk) 13:04, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

I realize that McDonald's expedition is now significantly larger than the Battle of Point Pleasant, so it might have undue weight. Would it be better to add more details to the small section on Point Pleasant, or spin off details from McDonald's expedition into a new article? Canute (talk) 19:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Dragging Canoe

A sentence in the Aftermath section calls Dragging Canoe a "renegade." I know he broke away from the other Cherokee to continue white settlers, and that he received aid from the British in doing so. But even so, "renegade" doesn't seem like a very NPOV term. Let me know if I'm wrong. Canute (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Fixed. If "dissident" is still too strong, how about "disgruntled"? His was obviously a splinter group, later called the Chickamauga. Sbalfour (talk) 23:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)