Talk:1965 Moroccan riots

This page translated; can you tell?

Of especial interest to potential reviewers (Moroccans?) would be the quotations from a witness, and from King Hassan II (on March 30). Regarding the former: What is a bidon-marché and does it differ substantially from a regular marché? Was there really a "barracks" next to the marché or is this something else these guys are attacking? Regarding the king's remark: does the current translation get at the contextual sense of "prétendu intellectuel" or is there a better way to put that? Hoping to add more sources and detail on some of the factual events but it's more important to get these quotations right. Merci, groupuscule (talk) 01:17, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 23 February 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Despite a question over the possibility of other protests that year, I see enough consensus. If any other protests prove to be notable enough, we can revisit that. (non-admin closure)  — Amakuru (talk) 10:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

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Events of March 23, 1965 → 1965 Moroccan protests – The current title is too vague to know what the article is about. Probably the event is about protests with 1,000 deaths (or deadly riots). George Ho (talk) 18:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support WP:CRITERIA -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 05:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

• These were not the only protests in Morocco in 1965, so if the page must be moved, a more specific title is necessary. Note, for some reason, "events" is a more common appellation for big social upheavals in French-speaking countries. One advantage to this term, is that it's less biased than either "protest" or "riot". (Sometimes this even seems to carry over to English translations — E.g., May 1968 events in France.) salut, groupuscule (talk) 20:05, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support the nomination or something similar (if "protests" is deemed incorrect) per nom. There are no other 1965 protests with articles at Wikipedia, so "1965" works fine per WP:PRECISION. (Wikipedia is not Wikinews or a history timeline). —  AjaxSmack  00:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • However, to contradict my support for a year-only title, the movement resulting from the protests was called the "March 23 Movement". —  AjaxSmack  00:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
• Support current title is too vague. Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 12:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
• Support. The current title is too vague. Surely many things happened on March 23, 1965. Egsan Bacon (talk) 18:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Comments on name change

Perhaps with the new name change, someone could engineer a different first sentence for the article than

The 1965 Moroccan protests were street protests in the cities of Morocco, originating in Casablanca on March 1965.

This construction misleadingly suggests that the events themselves are called by this name which has been arbitrarily given by Wikipedians. I'm not saying the old title was perfect, but it did at least correspond to popular usage among francophones familiar with the event.

In fact, maybe we could use a name that corresponds to pre-existing usage in English? For example, the Historical Dictionary of Morocco calls these events the "Popular Uprising of 23 March 1965". In my humble opinion this would be a much better name for the article, because it would convey the sense that these events were more than just protests, and would also restore the key "23 March" date, which, as User:AjaxSmack observes, became the name of a political movement. Perhaps Moroccan uprising of 23 March 1965 would be a reasonable variation?

I don't mean to be snippy about this, and I respect that an editor working intensively on an article can have blind spots which need to be corrected by the community at large. salaam, groupuscule (talk) 16:13, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

The current (new) title does not have to be permanent if it is not the best title; please propose another move request if you like. I personally do not preemptively oppose any title that is supported by sources although "uprising" seems a little strong in this case. (The term "riots" appears to be more common.)

There just doesn't seem to be a single term in English for the events. Some sources use the date, some only the month and others only the year. The term "riots" is common. One term used here for example, is "Casablanca Riots" (of 1965 implied) in the Dictionary Of Modern Arab History. "March 1965 riots", "Casablanca student riots of 1965", "1965 Casablanca uprising", "Casablanca massacres of 23 March 1965", and "social unrest in Casablanca in March 1965" are also used. Based on a perusal of sources, 1965 Casablanca riots combines the most common terms although the fact that Rabat and Fez also experienced unrest makes it less than ideal. So we are left with the current title or a change of "protests" to "riots". —  AjaxSmack  17:24, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 5 March 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 16:35, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

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1965 Moroccan protests → 1965 Moroccan riots – Should the title be "protests" or "riots"? George Ho (talk) 07:38, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Could I humbly propose Moroccan uprising of 23 March 1965, along the lines of the Moroccan Historical Dictionary? (1) Including "23 March" in the title seems essential to preserve something of the common francophone name (and to connect this event to the later political movement). (2) "Uprising", I'm less set on, but probably carries relevant meanings from "protest" and "riot" as well as conveying the tremendous scale of the event. Neither "protest" or "riot", i.mo., conveys the full scope of these événements. salut, groupuscule (talk) 21:06, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

The consensus agreed to remove the date from the title, leaving the year remaining. I don't think anyone here would be in favor of re-adding it. --George Ho (talk) 07:14, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

For the previous move discussion, I perused several Google Books search results involving various combinations of date formats and words like "protests", "riots", "demonstrations", "uprising", &c. (don't only look at the numbers, scroll down read the usage in the text of the following:[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]) The results were that the English sources were really all over the place. Some used the date, some only the month and many just the year. The name "Casablanca" was often used as the actions began there. Various terms were used to describe the activities as well. It seemed that "riots" was relatively more common but not overwhelming in usage. "Uprising" was quite uncommon as was the use of the full date. Therefore, I oppose use of the complete date and of the term "uprising". —  AjaxSmack  16:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Okay, fair enough. I appreciate that you looked into it carefully. Sounds like "riots" is the most commonly used English noun to describe the events, and "1965 Moroccan riots" is the best title. groupuscule (talk) 03:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

• Support as nominated per AjaxSmack's analysis above.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:46, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.