Talk:Exodus of Iranian Jews

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 October 2018 and 14 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jgilardi26.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Problems

• "Exodus"? Not in given citation. It was took from book Gatherings In Diaspora: Religious Communities and the New Immigration, chapter From the Rivers of Babylon to the Valleys of Los Angeles: The Exodus and Adaptation of Iranian Jews. Title is metaphor and it refers to Babylonia, there is no any "exodus" mentioned in all chapter related to Iran (pages 71-94).
• "Mass emigration"? According Iranian censuses, there were 62,258 Jews in 1976 and 26,354 in 1986, so migration of 35,000 people is "mass" emigration, an "exodus"? This is laughable because more Jews migrated from USA and few millions people migrated from Iran in 80's but Wikipedia doesn't have article about both events.
• Mentioning Jewish exodus from Arab countries is completely irrelevant for Iranian case, Iranian migration is more related to North American cases. However, Israeli user inserted even categories like 1948 Arab–Israeli War. Obivously, Greyshark09 has tried to make WP:SYNTH.
• "Religious intolerance"? Another laugable statement because none of 60,000 Jews were killed or hurt during Iranian revolution, none of religious building were destroyed, damaged or attacked. In fact, since revolution Jews acheived more rights like permanent members in Majlis. There's more active synagogues in Tehran (29) then in Rome or London. Even American Jewish authors reject such ridiculous claims about "intolerance".
• All rest content is nothing more then WP:OR since he's searching for numbers of Jewish population from various media articles, but there are censuses from Statistical Centre of Iran.

Since it's worthless, I'll redirect this article to History of the Jews in Iran. --HistorNE (talk) 02:23, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Additional informations from this talkpage, based on citations from article Israel ii. Jewish Persian Community, Encyclopædia Iranica, by David Yeroushalmi (do not confuse him with this namesake), Jewish Israeli professor from Tel Aviv University.

• Regarding numbers: Owing to emigration and natural growth, the number of Jews of Persian origin in Palestine is said to have reached 7,275 in 1926 and some 16,000 souls in 1935 ... An estimated population of some 20,000 to 30,000 Persian emigrants in 1948 ... According to official figures provided by Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics and by the Jewish Agency, the number of Persian immigrants who arrived in Israel between May 1948 through the end of December 1989 (i.e., the first decade of the Islamic Revolution in Iran) amounted to 74,148 souls. Considering Iranian censuses (62,258 in 1976; 26,354 in 1986), we get at least 52,000 Iranian Jews who emigrated from Iran during Pahlavi period just to Israel. From 1979 till today almost identical number emigrated from Iran to all other countries. If we consider thousands of Iranian Jews who migrated toward Western countries till 1979, there's no doubt more of them emigrated in Pahlavi then IRI period.
• Regarding motives: Moreover, because of a variety of historical conditions inside Persia, mainly the absence of state-wide persecution or popular harassment of Jews, freedom of movement and immigration from and into Persia during the years 1948-79 (and actual possibilities for immigration from Persia since the establishment of the Islamic Republic), the Persian immigrants who moved to Israel ordinarily did so out of their own free will. These immigrants, as well as those who settled in Mandatory Palestine, did not perceive themselves as victims, refugees or displaced individuals whose immigration was imposed on them by events or forces beyond their personal control.

Considering this, claims about some post-revolutional "mass-migration" driven by "religious intolerance" in complete nonsense and WP:OR based on non-reliable media outlets and bad math. Also, it's name is unsourced and politically motivated because all articles named as "exoduses" refers to expulsions. --HistorNE (talk) 05:23, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

It is fears of religious persecution, and the migration wave actually started prior to the Revolution. I don't understand what is your problem with the article. The migration of Iranian Jews from late 1970s is a distinct event from the Jewish exodus from Arab countries and happened for different reasons (and persecution is not the main one).GreyShark (dibra) 16:26, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

"Fears of religious persecution"? Says who, Fox News? I gave you academic sources which clearly states otherwise. According it, migrations are continious in past 100 years, about thousand emigrate per year. We already have two articles with almost same content: History of Jews in Iran and Persian Jews. Beside, you don't have to search media news to find precise number, all Iranian censuses are avaliable online. --HistorNE (talk) 13:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

• In my opinion there are a lot of problems with the article. The most striking to me is that the article's focus on immigration since the late 1970's does not seem to be supported by the cited sources. The cited source for the article title "Exodus of Iran's Jews" is about Iranian Jewish immigrants living in Los Angeles. Nowhere does the source define the term (as our article does) as referring "to the emigration of Persian Jews from Iran since late 1970s". This definition appears to be editorial OR unsupported by the source. The source actually discusses Jewish immigration from Iran both before and after 1979.

Our article states that:

1. According to Littman 70,000 Iranian Jews immigrated to Israel between 1948–1978. [3]
2. "At the time of the 1979 Islamic Revolution, 60,000 Jews were still living in Iran.[4]"
3. in 1979 "Jewish emigration from Iran dramatically increased"
4. "Since the Revolution, Iran's Jewish population, some 30,000 Jews, have emigrated to the United States, Israel, and Europe (mainly to the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, and Switzerland).[5]"

How can Jewish immigration dramatically "increase" from 60,000 in the 30 years prior to the revolution to 30,000 in the 35 years since the revolution?

Unsourced claims in the lead contradicted by referenced material in the article body include:-

1. "Most of 70,000-strong Iranian Jewish community exited Iran between 1978 and early 1980s" - See above 70,000 had already emigrated to Israel prior to 79
2. In total, about 90% of Iranian Jews fled or migrated from the country through the last 35 years. -
3. A small Jewish community of 7-10 thousands still resides in Iran as a protected minority. (referenced figures in the article body range from 9,00-25,000) Dlv999 (talk) 08:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• If anyone is interested in moving this article in the direction of WP:NPOV, why not just call it something like: "Jewish emigration from Iran" and discuss the Jewish emigration from Iran per high quality academic sources? Dlv999 (talk) 08:41, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

See additional sources, now added.GreyShark (dibra) 20:30, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it seems the numbers for post-1948 immigration are between 8% to 33% of total Jewish community. The 70,000 figure by Littman seems exaggerated.GreyShark (dibra) 22:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

• Just to clarify - Iranian topics do not automatically fall under ARBPIA.GreyShark (dibra) 20:31, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Merge request to History of Jews in Iran

Overlap: There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap and might be WP:REDUNDANT

There is no other Wikipedia page for the "exodus" of Jews from any other specific country, and all the information for every Muslim country for example, is combined on Jewish exodus from the Muslim World, which is the only other page on Wikipedia titled for Jewish "exodus"

Also possible POV and title change request to Emigration of Iranian Jews to ensure impartiality. Gamalny (talk) 20:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Inconsistency

This article alternatingly claims that the rights of Jews were “protected” by Ayatollah Khomeini, and that Jews were designated second-class citizens under Sharia law. Additionally, in several places it immediately follows up this statement that Jews were “protected” under Khomeini with an assertion that tens of thousands of Jews left the country merely due to “fear” or Khomeini’s “anti-Zionism” - but then admits that Khomeini stripped Jews of rights and killed Jewish leaders for their (alleged) “Zionism”. These are fundamental contradictions: protecting the rights of a minority and delegating them as second-class citizens are mutually exclusive. If Jews were being stripped of rights and executed, they did not leave the country en masse simply due to “fear”. It almost looks as if an apologist for the virulently antisemitic Iranian regime, which officially denies the Holocaust and endorses The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, has had a pass at this page. 96.248.86.161 (talk) 08:29, 23 October 2024 (UTC)