Talk:Intensive animal farming

Carbon emissions of intensive farming

I think it would be help to add some date here on the article on carbon emissions of factory farming, which is a topic of great interest.Aerchasúr (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Factory farming term

Hello @Randy Kryn: I disagree with this edit. The distinction is necessary because that term is inherently POV and so either needs the qualifier or should be removed. Invasive Spices (talk) 16:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

While opponents is a little vague, I do agree some qualifier is need to distinguish that it's a moniker that also has some accuracy/nebulous issues. I've restored the text with that in mind, but am definitely open to improvements. KoA (talk) 17:25, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

I find it to be a common term. While opponents use it pejoratively, I do hear it and read it as a common term. I mean, who says 'intensive animal farming', except technologists? Alaney2k (talk) 15:30, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

It's common in the general public, but usually not used typically by high-quality sources or those with subject-matter expertise in agriculture topics. Because it's such a nebulous term, there isn't really a straight equivalent in more precise terminology used by scientists or farmers. Otherwise, the term wouldn't have that problem in the first place. True common names tend to be more specific such as feedlots for cattle, etc. rather than one commonly used umbrella term. Because the term factory farming is often moreso a term of perception among the general public or sometimes used for outright misinformation, it is one we have to be careful about and apply WP:GEVAL to the term by flagging it in some fashion. KoA (talk) 16:09, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Even though the NYT source purportedly claims it's a pejorative term, it's also in the Oxford English Dictionary without any 'derogatory' label or usage notes. This indicates it's a general term for the system of farming. Terpomamanto (talk) 01:40, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

It's also in the Cambridge Dictionary [1], Dictionary of Agriculture and Land Management [2], Oxford Reference [3] and Merriam-Webster [4]. I agree, I am not seeing any mention of the derogatory label. Psychologist Guy (talk) 02:10, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I think the article should say 'also known as factory farming' instead of 'known by opponents...'. @KoA says that we should apply WP:GEVAL to this but I disagree as factory farming is at least an equally valid way of describing intensive animal agriculture. Terpomamanto (talk) 22:21, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Reliable sources in agriculture such as university specialists treat it as a misleading and a nebulous term.[5][6] The NYT piece addresses some of the misconceptions the general public has about farming related to the term too. That the term is commonly used isn't really disputed, but the accuracy or ways it used is what gets discussion in sources.

You also used to hear it used a lot in fringe depictions related to anti-GMO, etc. (e.g., portraying factory farming as "dousing" GMO plants with more pesticide when it was the opposite), so the short of it for us is that it's a loaded term we have to be a bit more careful about as editors. It doesn't help that other industry terms like CAFO, etc. are just jarony too, but that gets into why this article settled on the current title as something more WP:NPOV than the others I just mentioned.

That's partly why I mentioned above that while the lead text could be improved, it's probably better to focus on a terminology section first since the term redirects here to flesh out details on that, and then go back to the lead to see what works best. Until then, the current sourced text at least works for now. KoA (talk) 00:02, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

All of those sources are relevant only to limited regions of only one country, the US. Unfortunately I can't read the NYT piece since I don't have a subscription but I have doubts about it since it seems to be an opinion piece. Maybe 'factory farming' is used in the fringe depictions of factory farming you described but regardless of whether you think it's accurate that doesn't undermine its general acceptance as a term to describe the practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg Terpomamanto (talk) 10:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Maintenance template

The maintenance template stating "The examples and perspective in this article may not represent a worldwide view of the subject" is there since December 2017. Is it still relevant ? Should we remove this template or does the article need modifications ? Alenoach (talk) 16:38, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Removed. If you think there is still modifications to be made relevant to this template, you can explain it here. Alenoach (talk) 01:59, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

NPOV

This is an article with severe POV issues. A particularly bad example is the line in lede that claims that "these claims [from advocates of factory farming] have been debunked" based on a single 1986 paper! Eldomtom2 (talk) 19:35, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I took a quick look at least at the mentioned phrase, and it appears nowhere, even paraphrased, in that source, so I removed that. The rest of that part of the lead was recently moved up from the body, but it looks like it needs a closer look for sourcing. KoA (talk) 22:19, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

The line in the lead "Advocates of factory farming claim that factory farming has led to the betterment of housing, nutrition, and disease control over the last twenty years" is sourced to this 1986 paper [7], see page 231 which says "They point out that housing, nutrition, and disease control have progressed immensely over the past twenty years as a result of intensive production". The original source for this claim is a 1981 article "Animal Welfare: An Issue to be Taken Seriously". I have tried looking for that article and cannot find it anywhere. Psychologist Guy (talk) 23:08, 24 October 2024 (UTC)