Talk:Georgios Papandreou

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Something that wasn't answered earlier...

Is "Andreas" his middle name? --Jiang

I've never seen him referred to as such, but the Greek family naming pattern suggests that it was, since his son was Andreas George and his grandson is George Andreas. It is possible however that the middle name is a recent innovation in Greek names and that he didn't have one. I'm not sure where I can check this but I will try. Adam

I think of people from that generation (and earlier), it was typically uncommon to have a formal middle name (e.g. on the birth certificate), but not uncommon to use the father's name as a sort of descriptive pseudo-middle-name, especially if the father was famous. This may have varied by region though, so I'm not giving it as a definitive answer. --Delirium 08:19, Nov 16, 2003 (UTC)

I think indeed his father was Andreas. In fact being a priest he was called Papa Andreas (father Andreas) thus Papandreou means "son of father Andreas". In that time they were not used to have a middle name. —Geraki 2005-05-27 T 11:29 Z Andreas was not his middle name, middle names do not exist in Greek naming tradition. Greeks usually have one first name, sometimes two. The latter is still the exception, although nowadays one sees it more often than what used to be the case. The use of a the father's first name after one's own first name is common in Greece, mostly for disambiguation purposes, where in other countries middle names (not in everyday use) or dates of birth, would be used. The father's first name is used in the genitive so Andreas Papandreou was Andreas Georgiou Papandreou, Georgiou being the genitive of Georgios. This is close to the use of the father's name with -ov at the end in Russia or other Slavic countries. However, it should be stressed that the "father's name" does NOT form part of a person's given name, it is a distinct piece of information. Andreas Papandreou was called just that, not Andreas Georgiou Papandreou. Further, Papandreou means "of Priest Andreas", another case of the genitive. It is still common in Greece to call priests by their first name preceded by Papa (meaning "priest") the equivalent of English e.g. Father Andrew. In old times it was common for the families of priests to abandon their previous surname and use instead "of Papa so-and-so" as surname. I think this was the case with Papandreou, too since I remember reading somewher that their previous surname was "Stavropoulos"

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: articles moved (alternate proposal). Dabomb87 (talk) 18:51, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

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Geórgios Papandréou (senior) → Georgios Papandreou (senior) and Geórgios Papandréou → Georgios Papandreou (junior) — a) diacritics are almost never used to transliterate Greek names, and b) since there are two of the same name, both important as prime ministers, there should be disambiguation Constantine ✍ 16:36, 27 August 2010 (UTC) Following the discussion below, the alternative proposal is Geórgios Papandréou (senior) → Georgios Papandreou and Geórgios Papandréou → George Papandreou. Please indicate preference when you vote. Constantine ✍ 20:37, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

But there is no need for dab. I moved his grandfather's article to Georgios Papandreou (senior). The diacritics can go. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 16:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

On the other hand if for historical reasons a statement needs to be made that the name "Georgios Papandreou" should not be granted to either of these two men, because they are equally worthy of it (although that borders on OR), I am neutral, leaning on calling the grandfather "Georgios Papandreou" and the grandson "Georgios Papandreou (junior)". Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 17:20, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree that, taking the long view, the senior Papandreou may well be the more important of the two. My preference for disambiguating both is based on the fact that as the grandson is currently active as the PM, he will be more searched for than his grandpa. Constantine ✍ 18:22, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

How about "Georgios A. Papandreou"? (for junior) and "Georgios Papandreou" for senior (as in the Greek Wikipedia and many other foreign wikis such as the Italian, German Wikipedias etc.). See also George W. Bush. I simply don't like the "junior", "senior" dabs. Meanwhile for those who are looking for the junior and fall on senior's page we have the hatnote. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 18:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, Papandreou himself certainly uses that form... There are two problems however. "A." would suggest a middle name to an English-language reader, and not the abbreviation of the patronymic (tellingly, the page for the younger Papandreou was for years under "George Andreas Papandreou"). In addition, the elder Papandreou's father was also named "Andreas". I don't particularly like the senior/junior forms either, but I don't see any valid alternative, except perhaps for disambiguating by dates... Constantine ✍ 19:30, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

The fact remains that the old Papandreou is widely known as "Georgios Papandreou" both inside and outside Greece and he is the original "Georgios Papandreou" and does not need a middle initial. The younger one to be spared the fate of having "(junior)" attached to his name, I think it is a fair and elegant compromise to put the middle initial "A." and if by chance this confuses some readers we can explain it in the article, but I think this is a minor point and the disambiguation benefit of the middle initial far outweighs the confusion about a middle name or patronymic. We can also call him "Yorgos" similar to "Kostas" Karamanlis. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 01:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Per common usage, the most correct form for the younger would actually be "George Papandreou" (with or without the "A."), because this is the overwhelmingly used form in English-language sources. We could then perhaps leave the grandfather at "Georgios Papandreou" and avoid the ugly junior and senior issue. A disambiguation hatnote would either way suffice for linking to each from the other's article... I am dead set against "Yorgos" however, it just looks ugly... Constantine ✍ 03:05, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Let's name the younger Papandreou "George Papandreou" and the grandfather "Georgios Papandreou". I also agree with "Yorgos" not being particularly attractive but I was running out of options. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 03:12, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• Support second option, as nominator. Constantine ✍ 20:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

• Support Second that. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 20:45, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

• Support renaming the present incumbant to George Papandreou. That's how he refers to himself in English, and that's how the vast majority of the English-language press refers to him. Look here: http://www.primeminister.gr/english/george-papandreou/ --Damac (talk) 16:29, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Support: I agree, it sounds fine.Metsobon34 (talk) 11:05, 11 September 2010 (UTC)