Talk:George E. Clymer

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FAO Trappist -- Very interested by your correction of Clymer's middle initial. Could you give a source for this information? Thank you. Paulwnash (talk) 11:36, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Early life sources

Plentiful early life and ancestry info in this 1842 encyclopedia. Just one line in this book, which has him working as a "teacher, carpenter, cabinetmaker" prior to 1801. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:44, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Gwillhickers, I'm technically meeting "by the end of the month" deadline if you go by EST! I see you've already added to Early life using some of the above sources. I've got a draft below, which you should feel free to cannibalize as desired. Sorry for the parenthetical/shorthand citations.

Clymer's family moved from Geneva, Switzerland,(Timperley) to Pennsylvania sometime in the 18th century.(DAB) Some members of his family fought in the American Revolutionary War, and one signed the Declaration of Independence.(Timperley)

Clymer's father was a farmer in Bucks County, where Clymer was born in 1754.(DAB)(Footnote:At least one source says that Clymer was born in Philadelphia.(Saxe)) In addition to attending school,(DAB) he helped out on his father's farm, including by designing and building a new type of plough. (ELTA) Clymer's plough was more adapted to tilling the local soil;(DAB) both historian of printing Charles Henry Timperley and Smithsonian curator Carl W. Mitman noted Clymer's early demonstration of mechanical skill.

Remaining in Bucks County until he was about forty,(DAB) Clymer first worked as a teacher,(Saxe) before he moved into carpentry and woodworking.(DAB, ELTA) Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:22, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

I didn't mention the family bits but I think what you have is fine. You might choose to mention the marriage and "several children" here and leave the "survived by three daughters" to the part about his death. The physical description you added looks good to me. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:23, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers:. -- Thanks for checking in. I was going to give you a 'yo' in another day or so, to get your opinion on matters The two sources you dug up have been most helpful! and led me into finding yet another (Moore, 1886). For whatever reasons, they didn't surface during my original google and other searches. Not sure what you mean by "meeting by the end of the month deadline if you go by EST". In any case I'll incorporate some of your suggestions as needed. Just a friendly reminder, that general facts and simple or standard statements cannot be copyrighted, esp when there is no outright cut and pasting involved, and as such should not invoke any CLOP issues, hopefully. At the risk of sounding patronizing, you have been the most help, by far. Get back to you (real) soon. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 03:14, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Eastern US time it's still February, but it's March in UTC. That's all I meant! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:16, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers: Here in California it's still February. See you in March. :-) -- Gwillhickers (talk) 03:22, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers: — Your advice has been most appreciated, and I've made several edits to this effect. In your opinion, where are we now? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 06:03, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey Gwillhickers. I think maybe you're asking me to see if the CLOP tag can be removed. I can give the article a look-through soon. FYI, fixing failed pings is challenging, and this one didn't come through. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Feedback

• Starting to go through it now. Small note: most of the first paragraph in §Final years and legacy is not supported by the cited pages of Moran. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 05:37, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
• There's a Timperly p. 934 citation in the last paragraph of §Final years and legacy, but it doesn't support any of the content. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:09, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
• The Moran, 1971, p. 285 citation at the beginning of §Early life and family doesn't seem to support any content. The Saxe citation there has the same issue; it's one of those sources that (mistakenly?) says he was born in Philadelphia. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:17, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
• In §Inventor, there's duplicate info about Clymer finding little market in the US for the Columbian and taking it to England in 1817. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:53, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
• There's a Mitman citation for a line about the Albion in §Final years and legacy, but Mitman doesn't mention the Albion. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
• The Moore citation in §Early life and family doesn't support the preceding content. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:10, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
• Stopping here for now. No clop issues found so far, having reviewed content cited to the first six citations (of 14). The issue I'm running into is the content that is not followed by a supporting citation. For example, in § Inventor we have

  Clymer, along with a number of his contemporaries in Philadelphia, continued making minor improvements to existing wooden printing presses. He was one of the first to significantly improve upon the centuries-old design of the common press that were in use before and during the 1700s. He made changes in the method of cutting the large iron screw, mounting the platen differently, and employing rollers instead of sliding cramp irons for moving the platen into place. Soon he made the iron hand-press that shared some of its design principles with the press made by English inventor Earl of Stanhope.

  This is immediately followed by a citation to Moran 1973, p. 60, which supports the last sentence but not the preceding content. I know not every bit of content needs an inline citation, and I haven't evaluated whether any of the content does have a PAG-based citation requirement, but it makes CLOP evaluation more challenging. Basically, I'm asking: do you intend to have all the content be cited? If so, I might pick up the CLOP evaluation again after that work has been done. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 05:14, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers: Thanks for reviewing the article. I've been involved in debates in several articles and had not checked up on the Clymer article during this time. Sorry for the late response. Will look into the items you brought to my attention directly. As for not citing all the content, sometimes this can occur if the statements are just general with no pressing reason to cite, but if you feel this isn't appropriate, please point out any item in question so I can deal with it. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:49, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Items in question

• most of the first paragraph in §Final years and legacy is not supported by the cited pages of Moran.
  I added Mitman to support Clymer's final years, etc in England. — Also added missing page number in Moran to support mention of the Leggett and Britannia printing presses. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:55, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
• There's a Mitman citation for a line about the Albion in §Final years and legacy, but Mitman doesn't mention the Albion
  Mitman, 1973, pp. 235-236, was used to cite the ornamentation, the counterweight, etc on Clymer's Columbian Press.  Moran, 1971. pp. 285-286 was used to cite the Albion press in that it was a "reposte" to ("upstaging") Clymer's fancy designed press. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:34, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
• The Moore citation in §Early life and family doesn't support the preceding content..
  I substituted Mitman for Moran, as Mitman covers the aspects of Clymer's early life. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 23:04, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for these fixes. I haven't been able to get back to this article, but I do think I'll be able to review again within a week. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 16:27, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers: Thanks for chiming in. – Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner. Will wait patiently for your final review. No hurry. Many thanks. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:51, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

You can tell we're both busy folk! This is near the top of my list for wiki work in the next week or so. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:09, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback pt. 2

• "Clymer's printing press was considered the first significant American invention in the printing industry in both American and England" needs an inline citation, not supported by the next-cited Southward page. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
• Same issue for "and in little time proved to be the greatest improvement in printing presses over the wooden hand-printing presses of the 1700s ever attained at any one time". Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
• It's not clear what exactly the Southward citation is supporting. It's placed right after a description of the press's ornamentation, but it only covers the eagle. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
• Much of the above might be resolved by more liberally citing Mitman. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
• "Before this, wooden presses ..." How about: "Wooden presses had been employed in Europe since the fifteenth century, and the American colonies used them since the seventeenth century, many of which were made by Adam Ramage." Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
• The info on Clymer's 1817 move to England is mentioned twice. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)