Talk:Governor of New South Wales

lieutenant-governor

should this mention Francis Grose (Lieutenant-Governor) who was in command 1792-1795? --Astrokey44 15:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Shield

Currently displayed shield is erroneous, being the badge of N.S.W. used only on the N.S.W. flag. The Arms of Her Majesty in Right of New South Wales feature the correct shield and are appropriate for use by her representative the Governor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.104.9.123 (talk) 06:42, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Date of Lord Gowrie's barony

I'm trying to establish exactly when Sir Alexander Hore-Ruthven became 1st Baron Gowrie. Most refs talk about his appointment as Governor of NSW and his peerage happening at around the same time (in late 1934, after he'd returned to Britain after finishing his term as Governor of South Australia). He arrived in Sydney on 21 February 1935, and most lists (including ours) show him as Lord Gowrie at that stage. But the official list of NSW Governors here shows him as still Sir Alexander Hore-Ruthven. The date 20 December 1935 gets mentioned, but it's unclear whether this was when he got his GCMG (he was already a KCMG), or when his barony was created, or both. His ADB entry says that he assumed the office of Governor-General on 23 January 1936, and at the suggestion of Joseph Lyons he “had been created Baron Gowrie of Canberra and Dirleton”, without saying exactly when this happened. The Canberra association in the title seems to relate to the Governor-General's job, not to the Governor of New South Wales's job.

So, what appears to be the case is that when he became Governor of NSW he was Sir Alexander Hore-Ruthven, and some time towards the end of his 11-month term he was made Baron Gowrie.

This ref supports this view: "... it's the only way I can describe Lady Gowrie, who was at that time Lady Hore-Ruthven, the wife of the Governor of New South Wales."

As does this ref: "Hore-Ruthven served as Governor of South Australia in 1928, knighted the same year, and in 1935 became the Governor of New South Wales during which time he was created 1st Baron Gowrie."

Any clues as to the date of the Gowrie barony? -- JackofOz (talk) 04:46, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

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External links modified

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New South Wales head of state?

When did New South Wales become an independent sovereign state, for its governor to be its 'head of state'? GoodDay (talk) 13:05, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Changed: the claim is highly contentious and a Governor's website has no authority. Errantius (talk) 22:55, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, what would you see as a valid source? If the parliament and the governor both claim the same thing, there must be something in it. Most States are making the same claim; it's not something those radicals in Macquarie Street dreamt up. See list here.

The Head of State is the person who represents a country or state at the highest level. The Governor-General is the Head of State for all of Australia. In NSW we also have a Head of State and this is the Governor of NSW.

— Parliament of New South Wales

The Governor is appointed by the Sovereign and is her representative in New South Wales. The Governor is the formal head of state in New South Wales.

— Governor of New South Wales

I've only just noticed this. I wonder when they all got together and made the change? --Pete (talk) 23:05, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

We're having an RFC at Wikipedia: WikiProject Politics, concerning this topic. It's as though NSW were declaring independence & a republic. GoodDay (talk) 23:10, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Hardly. The High Court declared that a State Governor was the constitutional head of state in 1907.

The Governor, as the officiating Constitutional Head of the State, is accordingly named as the person to whom the notification is to be given…

— R v Governor of South Australia [1907 HCA 31; (1907) 4 CLR 1497 (8 August 1907)]

This was not seen as a break from the Imperial fold, merely a matter of law. --Pete (talk) 23:24, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Why then, is Australia a constitutional monarchy? GoodDay (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

The feeling is that we are increasingly remote from the days of Empire. The Queen is respected and admired but regarded as "not one of us" and few Australians care to see our affairs regarded as somehow controlled from Buckingham Palace. Constitutional monarchy or no, that side of things has been steadily downplayed ever since Menzies retired. Bit by bit crowns and union jacks and royal visits have been replaced by more Australian symbols. My guess is that when HM dies, we'll all be sad to see her go but King Charles is never going to be held in the same regard and the rarte of "de-royalling" will increase. The currency might feature Charles on the dollar coin and the five-dollar note as a symbolic nod but other coins and notes will likely have Australian symbols. This is controlled by the Currency Act - it's not something that just happens.

There was a huge outcry a few years back when the very monarchist Tony Abbott briefly reinstated knighthoods within the Australian honours system. Very few Australians thought it was a good idea. This might be seen as "republicanism by stealth" but you know, we elect representatives, they form governments, they make these changes, and presumably they do so with a fair sort of ear to the views of the voting public. --Pete (talk) 00:41, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

The High Court in 1907 says "Head of the State", i.e. the State of South Australia. Not to be confused with "head of state", which ordinarily applies to independent countries. Anyway, neither of these phrases appears in Australian constitutions. I wouldn't take the High Court's rather vague "officiating Constitutional Head of the State" as intended to extend beyond the immediate, limited issue. The "formal" head of the State of NSW would have to be the Queen; His Excellency (who is not a lawyer) is confused. And many strange things happen in Macquarie Street; who knows who wrote that? Nevertheless, our task is to use ordinary language. Let's go to the RFC: GoodDay, could you give a link directly to that RFC? Errantius (talk) 00:23, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

@Errantius: Right here. -- GoodDay (talk) 00:27, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

@GoodDay: Thanks - I have contributed there. Errantius (talk) 01:55, 13 August 2021 (UTC)