Talk:HMS La Hogue

Name of this ship

This 1811 ship was called HMS La Hogue instead of HMS Hogue: see for instance p. 83 of The Naval chronicle: https://archive.org/stream/navalchronicleco30londiala#page/83/mode/2up or Boston La Hogue, http://www.uspcs.org/home-page-slider/boston-la-hogue/. From The Blackwall Frigates by Basil Lubbock, 1922. p. 21: "The La Hogue of 1811 [...] sported a green and chocolate lion, its grinning mouth displaying rows of white teeth and a huge red tongue." https://archive.org/stream/blackwallfrigates00lubb#page/20/mode/2up/ VWA (talk) 01:52, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 1 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below; hopefully the issue with the photographs can be resolved separately. Dekimasuよ! 20:23, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

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HMS La Hogue → ? – I recently changed this page name from HMS Hogue (1811) to HMS La Hogue. I have since found out that I should not have deleted the year because every other page in this large category includes the year. But I cannot change back because HMS La Hogue (1811) is now a redirect. Here is what I want:

HMS La Hogue (1811) as the name of the article page

HMS La Hogue as the name of the redirect. Toploftical (talk) 21:30, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

We only dab by date when there are two ships of the same name. Therefore the current title is correct. However I note that Colledge, J. J.; Warlow, Ben (2006) [1969]. Ships of the Royal Navy: The Complete Record of all Fighting Ships of the Royal Navy (Rev. ed.). London: Chatham Publishing. ISBN 978-1-86176-281-8. lists it's name as just Hogue although I can see from the sources provided it was definitely La Hogue. I do have a suspicion given that the later ships were just Hogue that at some time it's name was changed Lyndaship (talk) 09:05, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Every other page in Category:Vengeur-class ships of the line includes the year. This exception sticks out like a sore thumb to me.--Toploftical (talk) 23:11, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I agree with you but the policy is different and can be found at WP:Naming conventions (ships) note the footnote Lyndaship (talk) 08:28, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

There were two ships called La Hogue: this one is from 1811, another one was built in 1855: La Hogue (1855), see also pp. 21 and 237 of The Blackwell Frigates. The second La Hogue was indeed built in 1855: La Hogue built at Sunderland 1855. VWA (talk) 00:00, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

To User:Lyndaship: So there is, in fact, another ship with the same name (but without the HMS prefix). That would argue for changing the name of this page to HMS La Hogue (1811) as originally requested. There are also two ships named HMS Hogue (1900) and HMS Hogue (D74). Adding the year to this ship name would certainly help avoid confusion, even if it is not strictly necessary for disambiguation. I for one, found all these various "Hogues" extremely confusing.--Toploftical (talk) 14:34, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

The difference is that this ships name is HMS La Hogue, it doesn't matter how many other La Hogues there are in merchant or other navies service. You could just add the year yourself by changing the article title and see if anyone reverts you, I certainly won't Lyndaship (talk) 14:59, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I cannot simply add the year because HMS La Hogue (1811) is a redirect page. That is why I requested the name change in the first place.--Toploftical (talk) 16:48, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I've posted at WP:Ships asking for comment Lyndaship (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

The current title would seem to be fine, per WP:NC-S. As for finding other ships with the same name, we need a "List of ships named La Hogue", which could also cover those simply named "Hogue". Mjroots (talk) 06:12, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. I don't see the point, none of the other ships with articles are "HMS La Hogue", just "HMS Hogue". WP:SMALLDETAILS allows variations like this, and the year is only necessary for disambiguation.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:30, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Photo of this ship

In The Blackwell Frigates a photo of the La Hogue (1855) can be seen. Therefore, the photo attached to this page is wrong. VWA (talk) 20:10, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

This page and photo are correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Hogue_(1855)

It is in complete accord with: https://archive.org/stream/blackwallfrigates00lubb#page/n335/mode/2up

and the picture of this 1855 ship: https://archive.org/stream/blackwallfrigates00lubb#page/244/

Therefore this photo on this page is wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_La_Hogue

Some more proof

This is clearly the same ship, the 1855 La Hogue around 1875: https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/find/sydney/page:10

But the 1811 HMS La Hogue was broken up in 1865.