Talk:Haitian Canadians

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Haitians are Latinos

Haiti is the first independent Latin American country. Haitians speak a French dialect. French is a Latin based language just as Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, and Romanian are. Spanish speaking Latinos are no more Latino than Latin Americans that speak French or Portuguese! Latino is a word that is greatly misused and misunderstood. People think Latino is equal to short, dark, and brown, in otherwords, neither Black nor White! However, the Ancient Latins were definitely a White people who were neither short, nor dark, nor brown!

Modern day Latinos define a wide group of varying peoples that speak Latin based languages. Millions of Latinos are White, millions of Latinos are Black, and millions of Latinos are Brown (i.e. Mulatto or Mixed). In all honesty, if Latin or Latino was used in its most truthful manner, it would refer to Whites only, since the Ancient Latins were a White tribe, and since 99.99 percent of Spaniards, Portuguese, French, Italians, and Romanians are also indeed White! Furthermore, it would only be a term to use for those people today who are predominantly or 100 percent Latin blood in origin, but I seriously doubt any exists today, even in Italy, where they came to power! All other Latinos are merely Latinized peoples thus, not true Latinos! But, for simplicity's sake, I'll use Latino in its loose sense.

Another point that needs to be established is that Hispanic is not synonymous with Latino. Hispanics refer to only Spanish speaking Latinos. This brings me to another point. Spanish speaking Latinos are the only group of Latinos that are givin official status as a group, Hispanic! Those that speak Portuguese aren't givin their own distinct label, nor are those that speak French! Seems a bit discriminatory doesn't it! Even Hispanic is a vastly misused and misunderstood term. Hispanic technically means Spanish and the vast majority of Spaniards, some 99.99 percent are White! Hispanic derives from Hispania, the Roman name for Spain. As the Spanish dialects diverged, it soon became Espana.

Another point of importance is that the term Latin America was coined by the French in reference to their own colonies in the Americas! Thus, French/Spanish speaking Cajuns and French speaking Canadians can rightfully be called Latinos!

--CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 04:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Just because the etymological origins of the word "Latino" come from the word Latin, it does not necessarily follow that this word refers to all persons who speak a Latin-based language. "Latino" derives from the Spanish and Portuguese words "latinoamericano" and refers to persons from the Spanish and Portuguese countries of Central and South America and the Caribbean. The meaning of the English-language word "Latino" is not commonly understood to include French speakers and it is not commonly understood to include Haitians, and most sources that define the word define it to include only Spanish and Portuguese speakers from the Americas. Please read this Wikipedia article for further sources and information: Hispanic and Latino Americans. Goodsdrew (talk) 14:49, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Latino = Latin American!!! It's just a shorter term and quicker to say in speaking. Latino and Latin AMerican both hearken back to Latin. The Latins were a people (White people incidentally) that spoke the Latin language. Today's Latino (Latin American) probably has only a smidgin of Latin blood in his veins. However, the language is more precise. Latinos (Latin Americans) speak not only Spanish, but also French and Portuguese! YES! FRENCH AND PORTUGUESE!!! Today's Latino (Latin American) to employ the term at it's loesest meaning, is not exclusive to Whites from Latin America, but also Blacks, and Mulattos (i.e. Browns)- basically anybody that speaks a Latin-based language! Hispanic refers to only Spanish-speaking Latinos. Why they have their own special category is way beyond me. Kind of haughty and high minded I think!

--CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 03:11, 09 May 2013 (UTC)

Like I said before, just because the phrase has the word "Latin" in it does not mean that it HAS to include all latin-derived languages. Meanings of words change in different contexts. You have provided no source to justify your reasoning. Please read what I wrote above and then read Hispanic and Latino Americans and read the cited sources, then we can talk. The vast majority of sources and dictionaries define Latin American in terms of the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries of the Americas.Goodsdrew (talk) 22:06, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Haiti was the First country in Latin America- but yet you say they aren't Latin? If you're Haitian you're either Afro-Latin/Mixed Latin/etc. People dont understand what Latin is!!! Latinos are people that are of Latin American culture, born in a Latin-American country, and speak a latin- based Language like French,Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, etc . Haiti was the very first in Latin- America , which is the reason why Haitians are proud to be Haitian ! I dont think you know anything about the history of Haiti- which is probably why you dont want to EXCEPT the Facts !!!!!!!!!! Look at Brazil, do they speak Spanish? NO!!!!!!!!!! However they are Latin just like Haitians are!!!!!! Even the Haitian ""GOVERNMENT" " decided to allow Haiti to be apart of the Latin-American society- because it was the First Latin- country!!!!! But I can see I might not get any where with you because you are in "" DENIAL "" OF TRUE HAITIAN HISTORY !!!!!!!!!! --CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 09:04, 09 May 2013 (UTC)

No guess work pls - Benjamin Keen; Keith A. Haynes (28 July 2008). A History of Latin America: Independence to the Present. Cengage Learning. pp. 582–. ISBN 978-0-618-78321-2..Moxy (talk) 22:35, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Nope, no guess work. Plenty of sources support the idea that Haitians are not Latin Americans:

"Latin America". The New Oxford Dictionary of English. Pearsall, J., ed. 2001. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press; p. 1040: "The parts of the American continent where Spanish or Portuguese is the main national language (i.e. Mexico and, in effect, the whole of Central and South America including many of the Caribbean islands)."

[1]: "Haiti is an anomalous country. Geographically, it is in the Caribbean, and by extension, the Western Hemisphere. But it is not part of Latin America, much less Anglo-Saxon America."

[2] "Haitians, who are identified as black Caribbean immigrants and not Latinos . . ."Goodsdrew (talk) 15:35, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

What some you don't understand is the difference between Latino and Hispanic. Hispanic refers to people who have roots from Spain, while Latino is just people from or having roots in Latin America. For example: Puerto Ricans are both Latino and Hispanic, but Brazilians are Latino and not Hispanic because they come from the Portuguese. Haitians are technically Latino because they are apart of Latin America. Their language comes from the French, is French not a language with Latin roots?

What some you don't understand is the difference between Latino and Hispanic. Hispanic refers to people who have roots from Spain, while Latino is just people from or having roots in Latin America. For example: Puerto Ricans are both Latino and Hispanic, but Brazilians are Latino and not Hispanic because they come from the Portuguese. Haitians are technically Latino because they are apart of Latin America. Their language comes from the French, is French not a language with Latin roots? Haiti is listed in these pages: Latin Americans, Afro-Latin American, White Latin Americans, Latin American. Websites: Introduction to Latin America: Twenty-First Century Challenges Hugo Chavez' legacy in Haiti and Latin America --CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 01:21, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

So far, the vast weight of sources that have been cited in this discussion say that Haitians are not Latino / Latin American. CoCoLumps is the only person in this thread arguing that Haitians should be identified as being Latino / Latin American. Let's try to reach consensus here. CoCoLumps--do you have any sources that support your views? Otherwise, the vast weight of the evidence points to reverting back to list Haitians as not being Latin American. If no sources are forthcoming, and if no one else chimes in to support the idea that Haitians are Latino, then I think we need to follow the sources and remove the references to Latino / Latin America. Let's give it 5-7 days and see where things stand. Anyone opposed?Goodsdrew (talk) 14:26, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

The sources that you have cited in this discussion are U.S. base and their definitions about Latin America are a bit incorrect. I'm fully aware the term Latin America does not always include Haiti however that doesn't mean their not part of Latin America. I already cited more than one source that indicates Haitians are infact Latino and Latin American, I don't mind providing more source.

"Hispanic: anyone from a country that speaks Spanish. (DOES not include Brazil) Hispanic: is NOT a racial category but denotes ETHNIC heritage. Hispanic is the term used by the US government.

Latino: Anyone from a country whose language is a romance language. It includes Haitians, Brazilians, etc. Latino is used for more informal communication. Latino is more a term adopted by the Latin population itself.

• However, most Latino people prefer to be called by their country of origin and nothing else: Cuban, Ecuadorian, Colombian, Puerto Rican, etc.

Latino is preferred because:

- It relates directly to the experience of Latin-American people living in the USA. Therefore it defines a process of hybridization, combination and selection of cultural values. A transcultural term. It is not Latin-American nor American, it is both and a new thing at the same time. Therefore, it expresses paradox, complexity and defiance.

- It denotes people who are the product of Latin-Indian and/or Latin-Black mestizaje and it is generally used by working class people. It affirms the cultures and people dominated by Mediterranean civilization in its career throughout the New World.

- It suggests ethnic pride and cultural affirmation and solidarity among all Latino people fighting against racism, sexism and classism."

http://www.uhu.es/antonia.dominguez/latin/introduction.htm

Latin America, noun, the part of the American continents south of the United States in which Spanish, Portuguese, or French is officially spoken.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Latin+America

"Haiti was the first independent nation of Latin America and the Caribbean, the black-led republic in the world, and the second republic in the Americas when it gained independence in 1804; as part of a successful slave revolution lasting nearly a decade (1791-1804)."

History and Culture of Haiti --CoCoLumps (Love yourself) 08:35, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Your first source is just someone's personal website and is not a reliable source under Wikipedia guidelines. Your other two sources are contradicted by the seven sources I've provided. With the weight of sources in this discussion indicating that Haitians do not qualify and without anyone else objecting to removing references to Haiti, it is clear that Haitians should not be listed in this article and I am removing the reference.Goodsdrew (talk) 21:04, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghan Canadian which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: MOVED. (non-admin closure) Kostas20142 (talk) 17:22, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

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Haitian Canadian → Haitian Canadians – WP:PRECISE correct spelling Alexander Iskandar (talk) 05:50, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Support, to remain consistency with other related articles that was previously discussed and ruled in favor of plurality of such ethnic groups. Someone must have forgotten this one. Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:09, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

• Support. There are a number of these being proposed (should have been done as a single mass RM, but whatever), so I'm copying this same comment into all these discussions.

The article lede and text throughout uses "Haitian Canadians". And that is what the article about -- not the term or concept, but the people. So just on the merits I support the move.

Also, this 2015 move discussion was a mass request for moves of "X Canadian" -> "X Canadians". It was turned down, but it appears that since then that articles have mostly been moved anyway -- to Afghan Canadians etc. etc. Whether there was another discussion(s) or someone just did this I don't know, but per Consistency (one of the Five Virtues), we should move this article to match those others. Herostratus (talk) 03:53, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Unverifiable claims

There are many unverifiable claims and statistics in this article. They are not referenced, nor could they be. Such as "95% of immigrants travel to Quebec; of that population, 95% take up residence in Montreal". Statistics are not kept on what city immigrants settle in. This is impossible to know. I have removed these wild claims and stats. 50.101.54.69 (talk) 23:23, 7 September 2019 (UTC)