Talk:Miami International Autodrome

Requested move 3 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. I should note that Hard Rock Stadium Circuit is a natural disambiguation that keeps the page title consistent with recent RMs for Imola, Monza, and Interlagos Sceptre (talk) 16:27, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

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Hard Rock Stadium Circuit → Hard Rock Stadium (race track) – Name of the track is "Hard Rock Stadium". It was incorrectly moved from Hard Rock Stadium (race track) without reason. Eurohunter (talk) 19:15, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose No sources cited. Hard Rock Stadium is, well, a stadium, and the race track is built around it. Similar to how Albert Park Circuit is built around Albert Park and Lake. 162 etc. (talk) 19:41, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
  • @162 etc.: Link me sources first for "Hard Rock Stadium Circuit". In this way anyone can move correct names cited in sources to fake ones as above and you will demand sources for correct names? This move is reverse of previous edit, no new content so it should be reverted as "unexplained move". Eurohunter (talk) 19:59, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
• Procedural support as reverting an undiscussed, unsupported move. This would have been eligible at WP:RMTR
  SSSB (talk) 20:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
• Comment/question - I could be missing something, but what evidence is there that the circuit/track even has a name yet? All the sources I can find use terminology like a "track around the Hard Rock Stadium" or "in Miami Gardens" (emphasis added). It seems to me that for the moment this article should simply be merged into Miami Grand Prix. A7V2 (talk) 23:37, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Agree with A7V2, this page should be merged with the Miami Grand Prix article. There's no evidence from sources that this track has any sort of official name, and this article is probably a case of WP:TOOSOON. Indeed, unless the track gets used for notable series outside of the standard F1 card (F1, F2, F3, Porsche Supercup, W Series) then the independent notability of the circuit and the race is questionable (unless we decide that the F1 race isn't independently notable from the synonymous CART race). HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 04:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
    • It not having an official name is not grounds for merging, you haven't given any justifiable reason for a WP:MERGE, the sources definitely show that the race track is notable, numerous sources discuss the track, and its design developemnt, so I don't see how TOOSOON applies (TOOSOON argues that it is not currently notable, but will be in the future, and deals with articles where notability assertions are based on WP:CRYSTAL).

    In the event that we do merge this article the correct place would be Hard Rock Stadium, exactly becuse of the quotes that A7V2 has listed. This circuit is being incorparated into a pre-existing venue, so the most logical place to merge to would be the article on the pre-existing venue.

    When I created the article I didn't create at Hard Rock Stadium (race track) because there was evidence that it was the official name. I created the article at that destination because it described what it was - a race track at the Hard Rock Stadium. I could just have easily called it Miami Gardens (circuit) - becuase it is a circuit in Miami Gardens.
    SSSB (talk) 08:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  The question here is one of whether or not the circuit is currently independently notable from the proposed Grand Prix. Once the track has been built and has held events there will be a far stronger argument that it is, especially if it holds events other than the Grand Prix itself. Right now the proposed circuit is just a component of the proposed Miami Grand Prix. The same issue exists for the proposed Hanoi and Jeddah tracks, with Hanoi showing how close these projects can come to fruition before falling through. Currently in all three cases we're splitting a relatively small amount of information about proposed events and venues up over two articles on the grounds that the subjects are likely to become independently notable enough to warrant separate articles at a future date, with an emphasis on likely. Having separate articles when we're simply talking about planned events and venues is WP:TOOSOON. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 09:28, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  The proposed circuit is just a component of the proposed Miami Grand Prix. No, the proposed circuit is a component of the proposed Grand Prix AND the pre-existing stadium. The venue exists (Hard Rock Stadium) it just needs changing to accomadate a race track. Therefore, the correct destination of a merge is Hard Rock Stadium.

  My current opinion is that this is currently, independtly notable, but this is something where it is not clear cut. However, a lack of a name is not a reason to merge (contrary to what you and A7V2 said above) and I strongly disagree that the merge should be to Miami Grand Prix.
  SSSB (talk) 09:41, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  Can you show examples of independent reliable sources talking about the circuit in a context that independent of the Grand Prix? HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 09:44, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  That's not the requirement set out in the notability giudelines. The notability guideline states significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Therefore sources such as this: [1] [2], where the primary topic of news article is the circuit layout, not the Grand Prix imply that it passes WP:GNG. Because multiple sources exist that primarily discuss the circuit and discuss the event as a secondry thing it passes WP:GNG.
  SSSB (talk) 09:59, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  I have no strong feelings about whether we merge or not. I just strongly disagree that it should be merged to Miami Grand Prix when the venue (Hard Rock Stadium) has an article and you have given no reason as to why the merge shouldn't be to the article about the venue.
  SSSB (talk) 10:05, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  Because all of the significant coverage I have seen has been in the context of the Grand Prix and not in the context of the stadium. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 10:26, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  I just gave you two sources whose primary focus is the circuit around the stadium, not the Grand Prix.
  SSSB (talk) 10:32, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  Miami Grand Prix and any other Grand Prix theoretically can be held at different race tracks ("buildings") so I don't see point to merging it into article about event such as Grand Prix instead of current existing "building" like Hard Rock Stadium but it should be atleast mentioned in both articles. Alternatively we can move this article to something like "Planned race track at the Hard Rock Stadium" or ratcher around this stadium. Eurohunter (talk) 10:45, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  "Planned race track at the Hard Rock Stadium" violates the WP:CONCISE policy.
  SSSB (talk) 11:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - I feel like some of what I said in my above comment/question has been slightly misconstrued/misinterpreted etc, including perhaps by Humanbodypiloter, so to clarify, the reason I think it should be merged (and this is not a strong belief, or one I will bother arguing if others disagree) is that I don't believe the circuit is independently notable, and I don't think the sources show it to be so, similar to an almost recent discussion regarding a Formula e circuit, and has nothing to do with the circuit not yet having an official name. I would also agree with merging to Hard Rock Stadium. My original suggestion was that the circuit doesn't really have a name at all. However, looking at some of the sources given above, I think the current title ("Hard Rock Stadium Circuit") is suitable. [3] uses the current title: "The Hard Rock Stadium circuit is the latest in a long line of proposed venues for F1 in Miami", whereas [4] uses both "Hard Rock Stadium F1 circuit" (headline) and "the Formula 1 Miami Grand Prix track" but including "Formula 1" seems overly long. A7V2 (talk) 11:20, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  For what it's worth my biggest concern (upon further thought) about merging this article with the Hard Rock Stadium article would be that that article is already quite large and such a merger may receive pushback from American Football or Baseball focused editors, who would probably argue that the small Miami Grand Prix article is the correct target for a merger. Really either target could be appropriate, as I laid out below. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:29, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment and clarify - Right now I don't see how this article's subject is independently notable from either the Miami Grand Prix article or the Hard Rock Stadium article. Once the circuit has actually been built and has hosted events there will be a far stronger argument that it warrants its own article, but at the moment it's merely a planned development to the Hard Rock Stadium that is intended to hold the proposed Miami Grand Prix. The fact that we're not actually sure what the track will be called is just a part of this issue. I'm not arguing that it's WP:TOOSOON to make the article because the subject doesn't have a clear name yet; I am arguing that the lack of a clear name is the result of the subject not actually existing yet and almost all of the significant coverage it has received either being in the context of "the circuit which is proposed to host the planned Miami Grand Prix" or "the circuit which is planned to be built around the Hard Rock Stadium". The relevant parts of this article should probably be merged into the relevant sections of those two articles for the time being. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 12:20, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Not having been built yet shouldn't affect the notability. Port Imperial Street Circuit is a perfectly fine article about a racing circuit that never actually existed. 162 etc. (talk) 00:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

I would argue that the Port Imperial Street Circuit and Grand Prix of America articles could be merged since they both essentially cover the same topic. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 14:29, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

To be clear this isn't an issue of "is this information notable enough to be included on Wikipedia(?)", since it clearly is; this is a WP:PAGEDECIDE issue regarding whether or not these subjects currently warrant standalone pages or if it's better to group closely related information together into a single article. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 14:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Rename Article to "Miami International Autodrome."

Based on the news from September 2, 2021

 Done Bbb2007 (talk) 19:27, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

References

Not a street circuit

This isn't a street circuit. It doesn't use any public or private streets. This is one of those rare circuits that uses existing private facilities that already feature some tarmac features, and this circuit will have additional permanent tarmac roads for the circuit built in the parking lot around Hard Rock Stadium that, when the race weekend approaches, like a street circuit it will have the necessary safety facilities temporarily installed around the circuit, and once the event is over, all the safety facilities will be dismantled and then used again for the following year. So this track is kind of sort of a hybrid. The Caesars Palace circuit in the early 80s was almost the same except there was an existing tarmac parking lot and they built a circuit on that parking lot. Same for the RFK Stadium IMSA race in the early 2000's in Washington DC.--Hmdwgf (talk) 01:13, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Circuit Homologation

As of this post's date, I have not been able to find out (including via Formula 1 Racing's and the FIA's own websites) if the circuit has yet been homologated by the FIA. With the (planned) 2022 Miami Grand Prix now only 6 weeks away, this seems a little surprising.

If anyone has a reliable source for the homologation having been done (if and when it has been done), It would I think be a useful addition to the article. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.229.59 (talk) 05:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, the FIA don't tell us when circuits are homologated. They just update their list. SSSB (talk) 09:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

It may anyway become moot because, according to a YouTube video uploaded 15 April, the responsible Miami officials have not yet issued the necessary Special Events Licence, and some local residents are attempting to have the event banned by a local court due to noise concerns! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.65.249 (talk) 02:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Grammar

The sentence "The track was designed and delivered Formula One by track designers, Apex Circuit Design" makes no sense. 2.58.221.201 (talk) 13:02, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Unofficial fastest lap

@Apeiro94: with reagrds to this. we all know that there is not any lap time held on Wednesday is not good enough, because it won't always be the case, and there are no sources to confirm this. This isn't fact as this point, it is a case of "as far as we know". Secondly, if you think all unofficial pole laps should be deleted, you can delete all unofficial pole time record info from all of the racing circuit pages by yourself - for many circuits (I believe all the F1 circtuis) I removed the claim of "unofficial fastest lap" on the grounds of WP:OR, sone of these have been re-added. In fact, most of our fastest laps citations are WP:OR because we claim it is the fastest laps on the grounds "we can't find a quicker time." SSSB (talk) 15:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)