Talk:Harzer Rotvieh

Photo trouble

Hi there. My mother took a picture of this cattle wich i uploaded to commons named withe the ugly name Attachent.jpg. When put it into this article by 280px|thumb|Harzkuh string it show anything else but not my cattle. In the german wiki, it shows the right picture. Maybe anyone can correct this please.

The cattle photo is surely not named "Attachment.jpg".  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  10:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion is: Moved to Harzer Rotvieh. bd2412 T 21:20, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Harz Red mountain cattle → Harz cattle – Name of article appears to be novel synthesis, and article is addressing multiple topics, the Harz cattle, and the "Mountain" breeding type of Red cattle (which could be compressed to a title of Mountain Red cattle probably), a hybrid of Harz cattle and Danish Red cattle. I have no objections to the article covering both the Harz breed, and the hybrid in a subsection, but the title can't be a made-up mishmash. It doesn't appear in any of the four cited sources, of which only one checks out anyway. PS: Even if this name were kept, it would need to be Harz Red Mountain cattle per pretty much every other domestic animal breed name on the system (capitalize the unique part of the breed name, but not the species).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  10:55, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Dicklyon (talk) 05:59, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
• another suggestion If you don't know the correct English name, use the original one: Harzer Rotvieh (like the French also do). Don't make up your own names. --PigeonIP (talk) 23:07, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose in favour of option suggested by PigeonIP for move to Harzer Rotvieh as per WP:CRITERIA Consistency (See: de:Harzer Rotvieh and fr:Harzer Rotvieh) or using option such as Harz (cattle) if translation is preferred or in favour of splitting of the article (which may be a better option than proposed renaming). Rename or split but "Harz cattle" seems to have little support.

"Harz Red mountain cattle" gets "About 4,430 results" and

"Harz cattle" gets "About 189 results"

Gregkaye ✍♪ 12:18, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose, the proposed title has the same muddled capitalisation as the existing one. But support a move to Harzer Rotvieh, per PigeonIP. It's pretty much academic anyway, as this breed was merged into the Rotes Höhenvieh in 1985. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
• Accept Harzer Rotvieh, then, per the above. That said, it appears to me that the entire article should be suggested for merger into Rotes Höhenvie; there doesn't appear to be sufficient notability to keep this as an article by itself, and it seems to serve no encyclopedic purpose. There is no Harz cattle breed, it was simply a phase in the development of the Höhenvie.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:44, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

The Harzer Rotvieh was a regional breed/ is a sub-breed of the Rotes Höhenvieh (DAD-IS). The Vogelsberger Rotvieh, the Waldecker Rotvieh, the Sauer- und Siegerländer Rotvieh, the Schlesier Rotvieh, the Odenwälder Rotvieh, the Bayrisches Rotvieh, the Sächsisches Rotvieh/the Vogtländer Rotvieh (GEH, Free State of Saxony: [1] pdf) are others. With industrialisation of agriculture and favouritism of "modern high-performance breeds" they lost their importance in the Central German Uplands (~1850s/1950s). With only view individuals left, breeders combined their resources to preserve the last descendants of the ancient cattle of the Celts as "Rotes Höhenvieh" (VIEH, GEH). "Harzer Rotes Höhenvieh" (~ Harz Red Mountain Cattle) is an alias of the Harzer Rotvieh (~ Harz Red Cattle ).

The dog breed de:Harzer Fuchs is a herding dog, bred to herd the Harzer Rotvieh (later also used to herd sheep). That may be an indicator, that this breed is of some (historic and/or cultural) significance. --PigeonIP (talk) 19:47, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment: Someone give me a check to make sure this is the English Wikipedia. If it is and Google isn't translating for me then I DO NOT SUPPORT as listed. I DO NOT SUPPORT as "Harzer Rotvieh", "Harzer Rotvieh cattle" or Harzer Rotvieh (cattle), unless we are merging versions of Wikipedia. I do support Harz Red cattle. The current name is not correct so does need to be changed but to a more proper name as supported by references.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Otr500 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 7 October 2014

• German "Vieh" = English "Cattle"; "Harzer Rotvieh cattle" would be Cattle cattle, "Rotvieh (cattle)" = Cattle (cattle)
• There are no usable references for an English name. Harzer Red mountain cattle is a private/handmade translation of a german website (harzer-rotvieh.de). Referring to "Harzer Rotes Höhenvieh" - a name only this website and members of the association (due to local marketing?) do use - it should be "Harz Red Mountain Cattle" (but there is no reference of native "English" origin for that). --PigeonIP (talk) 19:47, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
  • correction: The German name "Harzer Rotes Höhenvieh" means "Harz Red Upland Cattle" --PigeonIP (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

• Comment To complicate matters, according to the "Association to the preservation of the Harz cow and the Harz goat", the correct name for this breed is "Harzer Red mountain cattle". Number 57 12:22, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, that's the homemade/handmade translation PigeonIP was referring to above. Like some other names proposed (and later withdrawn) on this page, it falls foul of WP:AT, "Do not, however, use ... made-up names". Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:16, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Harzer is a German term, referring to the Harz (or "Harz Mountains"). "Harzer Red mountain cattle" is no proper English, it is Denglish. --PigeonIP (talk) 21:30, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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