Talk:Hi-5 (Australian group)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Shaidar cuebiyar (talk · contribs) 03:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Starting the review

I will be going through each of the criteria below, in order. I reserve the right to return to earlier comments or sections and revise or add to them until my review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week. I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision. I have no problem with editors starting to fix up the article before I have finished, but caution them that I may not see their improvements until late in my review process: I may refer to problems that no longer exist.

Check the toolbox for any immediately actionable problems.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:17, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Criterion 1

It is reasonably well written.

a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

Infobox

• Add {{Use Australian English|date=February 2016}} After Use dmy 'plate.
• Add | landscape = yes
• Trim caption, e.g. Hi-5 founders, 2006, <br />(L–R: Nathan Foley, Charli Robinson, Kellie Crawford, Kathleen de Leon Jones, Tim Harding)
• Add to origin, Australia is far too vague. I'm sure the article has this far more localised.
• Delete instrument: not used for groups.
• For years_active use {{start date|1998}}–present
• For label use [[Sony Music|Sony]]
• Trim website, e.g. {{URL|www.hi-5world.com}}
• For both current_members and past_members, use list markup. Also in both lists: members are to be placed in order of joining and then in alphabetical on last name. e.g. If all five founders arrived at same time then Crawford should be listed first for past members.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:45, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Infobox fixed accordingly. Group members section also fixed alphabetically. SatDis (talk) 09:57, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Lead

• An article of this size should only have a Lead of three or four ¶¶: trim and combine.
• Most of the ref tabs in the Lead are not required and can be moved to main text to reduce ref clutter for casual readers.
• Use Hi-5 are an Australian In AusEng band names are noun plurals. You may have to write a hidden note just after "are": many non-Aus editors see this usage as an error. Try something like <!-- DO NOT change "are" to "is": in Australian English band names are treated as noun plurals. Thank you for concern.--> Check elsewhere for "is" vs "are" or "was" vs "were".
• Forming "in Sydney" is not needed in the Lead.
• deLink common terms, e.g. all [[Sydney]]
• Reduce overworked terms, e.g. group, cast, members, international (2× in one sentence), television
• Trim The current members of the group
  • Probably needs some time frame instead of "current", e.g. In February 2016 the members were or similar.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:49, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
• Delete "young" from five young performers Given their target audience, 18 to 26, is not notably "young": not needed in Lead.
• wL original members with their own articles, first time in Lead and then first time in main text. List them in alphabetical order unless you can show that Foley joined first &c.
• Reword/combine the two sentences from "These members" to "end of 2008."
• AusEng: line-up
• Rephrase had regularly rotating lineup "regularly" implies some sort of roster or time table, while "rotating" implies some member(s) have left and returned at a later time.
• Hi-5 (when referring to the show). Check elsewhere.
• The band is based on the TV show? In the first sentence we have the band forming in 1998, while the show appears in 1999: explain this apparent anachronism.
• Does "cast of the show" ≡ "the band" or "the group"? Are the five members of Hi-5, the band, the only cast members of Hi-5? (see also Criterion 3b, below)
• "immediately" Do you mean in 1998 ahead of the TV show?
• Delete "around Sydney"
• I don't like usage of successful sounds like puffery.
• Change spawned: jargon term.
• Delete over time at end of sentence: redundant, given "sometimes"
• associations > associates
• Word missing? included the live stage
• became known as > are
• Rephrase sentence with "listed ... annual list"
• Lower case on double platinum et al.
• High charting (say top 10) albums, platinum (or higher) accreditations and/or ARIA award winners should be named and wL in the Lead.
• Second half of ¶4 appears to have little direct relevance to the band: it is more directed to the franchise, including the various TV series. Trim this back.
• Original member Nathan Foley > Foley has If we've read the Lead this far, we already know Foley's credentials.
• [[the Wiggles]] unless starting a sentence.
• Remove However, The Wiggles were themselves creators and owners of their brand, while the Hi-5 cast were merely employees and did not hold equity. from Lead. This is not directly relevant to the band, per se. It can be discussed in main text.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:44, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
• Delete in Australia, from lead-in sentence.
• Change becoming > as
• Examples of notable albums should appear in the Lead.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:43, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

TV series

• How is this section's content sufficiently complex to justify its separation from the following one on History? Add a Template:Main article to Background.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:54, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Background

• The 1st ¶ should mention Hi-5, the band: preferably in the very first sentence. This is what the article is about. Something similar to the Lead's first sentence would be acceptable. Then you can provide brief description of the establishment of the show.
• Reduce overworked terms, e.g. producer, Bananas, children, Hi-5, cast, first series, international
• Refer to named people by surname after first identification (where they should be wL if they have an article) Aside: I can't believe Harris doesn't have her own article!
• would include > includes
• The sentence on the name's origin/usage is awkward: clarify and trim. Why no mention/link to high five?
• Delete The series was pitched to and produced for the Nine Network through Harris and Graeme-Evan's joint production company, Kids Like Us. Not particularly relevant to the band.
• deLink common terms, e.g. auditions
• List (and wL) cast members in alphabetical order. Hereafter ref to each by surname alone.
• wL album title at first appearance.
• initial first year tautological
• This was done to replicate > This replicates
• Delete "cleverly" from "cleverly disguised"shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
• Add Sydney to location of foundation to lead-in sentence, but no wL.
• ¶1 should have more citations.
• More on previous connection between Harris and Posie-Graeme.
• "kept contemporary" is only supported to October 2005. Have they sustained this or are they now, more than ten years later, out-dated?
• With the debut album's release, I expect to see some charting and record label information. Who was the record's producer?
• More citations for ¶3 (last sentence) and ¶4 (both of last two sentences).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:07, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Early success

• Check ¶ sizes. Some are too big, others too small.
• Is the Hi-5, here, the band or the programme? If the latter use Hi-5 but be careful of diffusing the article's focus.
• Delete any extraneous space between the end of a quote or punctuation and a ref tab.
• Use [[ARIA Music Awards of 2000|ARIA Award]]
• wL: [[ARIA Award for Best Children's Album|Best Children's Album]] Note: lose the talking marks.
• Where's the ref for these awards?
• Specify several more of these awards: how many and in what years?
• Reword, awkward sounding also drew much success,
• Exemplify the "success" by giving charting of specific albums.
• After the début album cite all top 10 albums, platinum/double platinum albums and/or ARIA Award winners.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:56, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
• Crawford vs Hoggart: shouldn't her maiden name occur when she is first named in main text? I understand it is being raised in the context of her relationship with Foley, which occurred prior to her later marriage.
• were in a personal relationship
• which was instructed to be kept > they were instructed to keep it
• The couple were engaged
• The pair continued to maintain a professional working relationship > As members of Hi-5 the pair maintained a professional relationship
• Tone down the flowery/puffery language. e.g. became an instant hit, award winning, sell-out success, generating mass publicity I hope the adjoining refs support such effusion: it does not sound encyclopaedic. Other examples occur in the article, but I'll let you find and fix them.
• In later years, Charli Robinson stated she tried > In October 2015 Robinson stated she had tried
• The final single-sentence ¶ probably belongs to the next section?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:31, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
• Rework ¶ sizes: try to get the first two more similar in size.
• In mid-¶1 give (month year) for each album after debut, e.g. Celebrate (October 2002)
  • Also provide top 20 charting & any non-Australian charting.
• Into for the remainder insert most of.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:57, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Replacement of original members

• Delete Kathleen per previously introduced.
• Delete the 2nd appearance of 2006 in same sentence: its redundant. Remove subsequent uses in following sentences where it is obvious what year is being referred to.
• wL [[Sun Park]] or [[Sun Park|Sun Pezzimenti]]? Does she use her husband's surname? The navband template, below, has Pezzimenti although her article has Park.
• as her temporary replacement in Hi-5,
• Delete children's names/genders unless said individual is independently notable. For this article it is enough to know that de Leon Jones had a child and that this affected her considerations about whether to remain.
• Delete and her leave was not permanent at that moment excessive material. A lot of this ¶ repeats the same information: trim it down.
• Not sure about sequencing of ¶2: it gives me the impression that the circus shows started before Harding's accident, and that he was referring to "trapeze, tightrope walking and gymnastics" as part of the group's "high energy act". There are inconsistencies if their circus performing did not start until September (with Harding already subbed by Nicholson)? This needs to be sorted out and explained better.
• Check overuse of 2007 here.
• wL [[Stevie Nicholson]] I leave it to you to make sure that any other notable members are wL first time they are named in the main text.
• Trim Harding later recovered from his injuries, however in November 2007, it was officially announced that he had decided not to return to the group and Nicholson would take his place as a permanent member.
• Replace "Stevie" with "Nicholson" (×2). Maintain encyclopaedic tone.
• Delete "Charli", also then Delaney > by then Delaney
• Delete Upon her announcement, redundant.
• She said she was proud > She was proud
• would go on to air in mid > aired in mid
• Did Delaney/Robinson help find/transition Burgess?
• Reduce ref clutter, specifically are all four refs at end of "touring with the group." necessary? If not, choose minimum needed to verified the points and drop the rest. If they are all equally needed then use a ref cluster or note.
• younger and cheaper talent Reword this: it sounds demeaning to both the original members and to any incoming replacements. You'll need to add the ref tab to the end of that sentence, as well as the next. Park/Pezzimenti's later denial seems futile if wp perpetuates the "industry rumours" about the production company's use of "younger and cheaper replacements"(see Moran ref)
• She expressed she felt she Too much "she" for me.
• wL [[Carols by Candlelight]] –shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:04, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
• Delete 2nd appearance of Hi-5 in ¶1.
• By the time Crawford and Foley left, I understand that Harris (and Graeme-Evans) had already moved on. The change-over in the structure of the "production company" and ownership of the brand indicates that the generational change is wider than just replacement of original performance members. This should be made clearer in this section.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Second generation

• Add of Hi-5 or similar to lead-in sentence.
• Add "early" before 1st in 2009? Unless you can find the month.
• Trim forming the group which would be known as the "new generation" e.g. forming the line-up known as the "new generation"
• Reorganise Burgess' quotes, the 2nd appears as an unattributed sentence.
• Clarify group's ten-year milestone in 2009 Earlier we were told that Crawford and Foley had left the band after ten years. Or is this referring to the ten-year milestone of the show? Or of touring?
• The latter half of ¶2 belongs in later section: Brand and finances. Once its shortened it should be melded with a neighbouring ¶.
• I'm starting to get jaded with the whole "it was announced that" style of retiring/replacing members. Try some variation, e.g. start the ¶ with Irvine's final performance in Hi-5 was at Carols by Candlelight on Christmas Eve 2011. She stated, "My time with Hi-5 has been a magical chapter of my life", while a network representative said she wanted to explore "other career options". or similar.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:41, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
• Back to second sentence of this section, list new members alphabetically: all joined at same time?
• Since Irvine does not have her own wp article a little more detail about her can be added. If she gets her own article then this can be cut back (but let others worry about that, if ever).
• Re-read reasons for Irvine leaving. This sentence is overly repetitive.
• In which month did Zheng join?
• Specify The cast described > Maddren described
• it was announced that the Nine Network > the Nine Network announced that
• Clarify after their financial difficulties Who's the "their" in this sentence? Hi-5, Nine Network, the production company or Asiasons?
• Delete 1st names Casey Burgess and Tim Maddren announced
• Adjust/wL with The Addams Family Australian musical, > in the Australian version of [[The Addams Family (musical)International productions|''The Addams Family'' musical]] theatre production.
• The ¶ flips and flops between Maddren and Burgess, I'd rather see one dealt with at a time. Sort out the rest of Maddren's stuff before switching over to Burgess's quotes and info.
• begin her music career > expand her music career or resume her solo music career or similar. She already had a music career prior to Hi-5.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:41, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Too many "Hi-5" in ¶1.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:31, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Third generation

• Reword lead-in sentence: mention Hi-5, remove first names of previously introduced members, change who would join > who joined
• Is it a feature film? Or is it a documentary, behind-the-scenes or similar?
• the film depicted the audition process Redundant, we've already been told that the auditions were filmed.
• The group was again branded as a "new generation". > This line-up were branded as a "new generation" of the band. However McCabe calls them the "fourth generation" (not third), this may cause a re-jig of the article if other media reports have a differing scheduling of generations from what is seen in this article.
• Nick Jr. requires a brief description, say pay-TV channel or similar.
• Month for series début?
• Reword ¶2. Most of the first sentence can go. Probably start with something like Brant's final performances were in July 2014 for the
• Modify Brant stated she'd had per MoS:Contractions
• Timeframe for Anderson as an understudy, e.g. from October 2013 or similar.
• Specify described as "bigger and better Who is describing them thus? Hopefully this is an independent source: it seems to be a PR group but more about this later, at Criterion 2b.
• Awkward & puffery with a large success
• Who said they're an "institution"?
• Do we need original member Charli? Just use Robinson, or former member Robinson Also, I'd have the radio job earlier in that sentence.
• extensive Hi-5 cast > extended Hi-5 cast "extensive" relates to area or coverage.
• Delete "an" from an "alumni"
• Do we need long running member Stevie If reference to his tenure is needed give span, e.g. , after eight years or similar
• Delete with the group (×2) we can figure this out from the first sentence of that ¶
• Who described it as ""children's masterpiece
• While we're there fix any hyphens that should be dashes (even inside direct quotes or in reference templates).
• Aside: was Hugh Barrington a member of Hi-5? Even if a temporary/touring only replacement for Nicholson? May mention this again at Criterion 3a.
• Month for Dearing joining?

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:22, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• Ref needed for "premiered exclusively".
• Who branded them as "new generation"?
• Fix end of quote, which starts with "the most amazing
• Word missing from the sentence starting with: This tour saw Hi-5 expand rapidly with an shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:45, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Group members

• Why "group"? A simple "Members" section heading would suffice.
• The infobox listing of former members is getting rather deep, consider adding see [[#Members|Members below]] up there instead of the Plainlist. If you do choose to do so then wL member names in the caption.
• Move the whole section below main text, i.e. below Reception.
• Change entries per: Dayen Zheng – vocals <small>(2012–present)</small> If any other instrumentation is performed then add these after vocals e.g. , tambourine or whatever. Note there's a hard space after the surname and before the dash.
• For any understudy add , understudy (2013) or similar after main performing entry. In the case of Anderson , puppeteer should be added, too.
• For former members shorten the display of time span, per: <small>(2006–08)</small>
• Check individual names & roles in timeline. e.g. Jones is missing from de Leon; "swing" should be changed into "understudy", Nicholson was an understudy prior to become a full permanent member.
• While with the time line what's the orange colour for? Put it in the key.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Musical style

• Substantiate "distinctive" and "unique". In the Girl.com interview (ref [77]), Foley compares Hi-5 with Young Talent Time. ref [78] provides comparisons with S Club 7, Steps and Tweenies.
• Too much of the content/quotes here depend on non-independent sources, e.g. Harris, Foley or Robinson.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:13, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
• Given his importance to Hi-5's music, and the fact that he doesn't have an article, some more information on Harriott & his previous work (especially with Graeme-Evans or other Hi-5 connections) is required.
• Delete since it was created Redundant.
• Change "produced" in having produced thousands
• 3000 songs? or 3000 performances of songs? Are none of the Songs of the Week or Songlets repeated in subsequent shows?
• Describing Harriott as a father and then "prolific" in same sentence gives an ambiguous message!
• Who describes him thus? Harris should be named. An independent opinion would be better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:01, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
• Again the person for has been cited is not specified, again its Harris. I'd prefer to see independent descriptions.
• Delete Original group member Nathan We already know this.
• Delete other first names of previously introduced people.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:13, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Educational theory

• Is it Hi-5 or Hi-5 in this section? Check usages of the two terms some are wrong way around. The distinction is blurring and needs refocussing.
• Try to reduce the redundancies and overly detailed explanations.
• Adjust the size of ¶¶: they're too big.
• Delete redundancies and trim for concision and clarity. e.g. Lead-in sentence: Hi-5, and the related series, were designed by educational experts to appeal to contemporary, "media-literate" children by relating to their world. or similar.
• How does the claim that they "do not play a character, but rather truthfully present themselves to the audience, adding an element of honesty" stack up? They are regularly referred to as performers, by media and their network. Some activities by alumni after leaving the group indicate that their personalities are more complex: clearly they were less "themselves" when in Hi-5.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:07, 17 February 2016 (UTC) (reworded) shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:29, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
• Delete "cleverly" from are cleverly disguised
• This article is about the band, lighten up on the complexities of Gardner's ideas, e.g. delete ranging from logical-mathematical thinking, to a focus on linguistic skills, to cater to a child's individual learning approach. as superfluous here.
• Remove 2nd appearance of "cognitive development" in a sentence and reword that sentence.
• Reduce overuse of terms: music, children, feature, stage
• Delete It has been noted that long-winded.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:18, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Brand and finances

• Much of this details the franchise and so can be cut back to focus on its relevance to the group.
• Again distinguish between Hi-5 and Hi-5.
• Remove "very" from worked very closely
• Use the Wiggles for mid-sentence, also deLink.
• The main ideas in the cast of Hi-5 did not hold equity, but were rather employees of the brand. Because of this, the original cast in early years stated that they had financial difficulties, even though the Hi-5 brand was earning millions. can be summarised for the Lead, just after the BRW rating.
• Status of Graeme-Evans (also seen as Grame-Evans) is murky. If this is important for the band's history it should be clarified, if not remove it.
• Talking marks needed after new level."
• Delete 2nd and subsequent appearances of Martin leaving Hersov
• Shift after their financial difficulties to earlier in its sentence.
• Explain cash in on Hi-5's success. This seems contradictory after being told that their net worth had halved in a year (2009/10) and the subsequent sentence where Nine didn't have capability to spend on children's TV.

Philanthropy

• By the band or by the franchisees?
• Reduce overuse of: ambassadors
• Explicate held a strong history By the way, "strong" sounds extreme if this is the first time the association has been mention in the article. You'll need an independent ref to substantiate this claim.

International versions

• Again distinguish between Hi-5 and Hi-5.
• ¶2 is confusing: tighten up expression.
• When? to date (×2) and currently touring.

Other ventures

• Is this directly related to the band or to the franchise? If the latter it does not need to be here.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Reception

• Qualify has enjoyed success throughout their history To me this is a largely meaningless statement. What is the nature of their success? Has the same level of, say, commercial success been sustained during their career? What about chart success?
• In a Reception section I expect to see critical reviews by reliable sources. How were their albums received by media? How did the various band members fare in interviews with newspapers, magazines etc?
• Who estimated the 10 million audience?
• When? currently airs
• Delete It has been stated that
• wL & italics for ''[[BRW (magazine)|Business Review Weekly]]'' At first mention in main text, maintain italics elsewhere.
• How early was early success?
• Exemplify sell-out shows around the globeshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
• Specify For many years it was e.g. For three years (2000–02) it was or whatever.
• Exemplify all consistently received multi-platinum album sales, Give accrediting body, if it ARIA then they're not based on album sales. Give numbers per accreditation type.
• Whom? has been praised for its multicultural cast considered one of
• wL [[Helpmann Awards|Helpmann award]] While there, specify the category they won.
• Fix hyphen in last sentence.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:34, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

More to follow.

Awards

• Rename as Awards and nominations, change to level two Section heading, move to below Discography.

ARIA Awards

• In lead-in sentence, spell out the acronym and provide a ref.
• Provide a ref for fifth win being "most consecutive wins".
• Specify was later overtaken i.e. in what year?

TV Week Logie Awards

• Do these belong here or in the Hi-5 article?
• Adj ref clutter; perhaps use a ref cluster.

Other awards and nominations

• Changes to Others
• wL to articles

Tours

• Move section to below Discography
• wL Australia, New Zealand, [[Singapore]], United Kingdom, [[United Arab Emirates]], [[Hong Kong]], [[Vietnam]], [[Malaysia]], [[Indonesia]] and [[Philippines]]
• Adjust time values 2003–2004 > 2003–04

Carols by Candlelight

• Were they broadcast live?
• Did Gill portray both Santa and the bear? Otherwise fix that sentence.

Discography

• If not already done, move to above Tours. Move both Discography and Tours above Awards and nominations.
• Change Peak position (AUS) > Peak chart positions
  AUS
• Retitle Notes column as |[[Music recording sales certification|Certifications]]<br /><small>([[List of music recording sales certifications|sales thresholds]])</small>
• Delete the Refs column but put the Australian Charts Portal ref after ARIA Charts, put ARIA accreditations ref in Certifications column after relevant type per album.
• wL all albums with an article.
• For charting are there any positions in the range 51–100?
• Note 2 is probably redundant once each accreditation has its own ref.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:59, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Some more changes are required, above. You've done very well so far: your patience and persistence are commended.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:50, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Criterion 2

It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

References

I will be checking all the references and each comment below is under their number as they existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted. Newspapers, journals and other works are generally italicised but publishers are not. Use dmy dates for date, archive date and retrieved date. Every effort should be made to identify author(s). Any bare urls or dead urls should be fixed immediately.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:28, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Check that you're using the most appropriate citation template, many newspapers are using cite web where cite news or cite journal are required.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:29, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

1. Change cite template to Template:Cite news. Fix author = Lawson, Valerie | work = [[The Sydney Morning Herald]] | date = 18 December 2002 | accessdate = 20 February 2016 Remove publisher or replace with publisher = [[Fairfax Media]] Content supported.
2. Add author, date. Adj title per MoS: Norfolk on Stage – Hi-5 Comes Alive at the Theatre Royal Note: that's an en dash after Stage, hyphen between Hi and 5. wL first appearances in refs, e.g. BBC. Fix accessdate per previous. Some content is not supported, additional refs are needed.
3. Fix date, fix work = Australian Anthill. Content supported, but only up to October 2005, another ref is needed to verify contemporaneity of the 2016 band.
4. Change cite template to Template:Cite AV media. Add people (including contributor and its official nature). Add language = Spanish Provide in-source locations, e.g. minutes = 0:48 Delete YouTube from title. Adj publisher to YouTube (wL first appearance). Fix date, accessdate per previous. Content verified.
5. Fix bare url: get it up to GA standard. Make sure to add Example text (Do same for other pdf files but don't wL later appearances). Content verified.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:13, 19 February 2016 (UTC) Added comment about PDF.06:10, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
6. Use: cite news. Add author, date. Trim title (it ends at Act). Fix work & wL 1st appearance. Content verified, but only up to November 2005, another ref is needed to show that the updating ethic had continued – its more than 10 years out of date.
7. Use: cite news. Fix date, accessdate. Add/adj: title = Hi-5 – New Kids' TV Craze | work = The Newcastle Post – TE Liftout {{noitalics|[Archive]}} | editor1 = Scully, Anthony | editor2 = Lazarevic, Jade Note: check wikicode to see how to handle [ or ] in title (copy all code between the nowikis). Content supported.
8. Add author(s), fix date & accessdate. (This will be the last time I'll warn you to do so, but I expect all internet refs to have these fixed/added where available). Some content verified; date of filming not shown.
9. Change to Template:Cite thesis. Fix author (last name, first name), fix/add information including: type, publisher, page number(s). Content supported.
10. Fix bare url. Content per Most Outstanding Children's Program is supported. However, fix the lead-in sentence you've mixed two different awards.
11. Fix bare url (but use list view instead). Content per Best Children's Album is supported. However, delete "the debut album" from lead-in sentence. (We already know this from previous section).
12. Change to Template:Cite certification. Is this the same ref as [128]? If different, fix publisher. Does not support content: at a "consistently received multi-platinum" however, as only one album has multi-platinum by 2001; at b no certification info on Celebrate nor Jump and Jive with Hi-5, other ref(s) needed for these two.
13. Use: cite news. Adj per ref [7]. Not reliable for certifications or charting (or awards): better refs are needed for these. This could be used for touring info.
14. Use: cite news. Trim title. Adj work = [[Scoop (website)|Scoop Independent News]] Not reliable for Helpmann award win: try the award-giving site here.
15. Non-independent ref: not reliable for awards.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:56, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
16. Change title: hyphen > en dash. Check date, title suggests August 2001. Content supported.
17. How is this a reliable site? It says its outdated, user-generated. The original article this is based on appears to have been written by Nui te Koha of The Herald Sun, as "Secret Lovers Spill Beans!" (16 August 2002): but I don't have a reliable url for you. A rival newspaper, The Daily Telegraph's Confidential reporter in an article, "Nine Denies Hi-5 Trouble" (17 August 2002), claimed that the pair (Foley and Hoggart) were misquoted and that they had not kept their relationship secret nor were they directed to do so by the production company nor Nine Network. Again, I don't have a reliable url for this either. In any case, the whole interaction seems unreliable or a media beat up. The existence of the relationship should be in wp but not unsupported/denied claims about being restricted, "under wraps" or secret. Unless you can find a more reliable source .
18. Use: cite news. Fix the usual, also fix work. Content supported.
19. Use: cite news. Fix the usual, also fix work. Content supported.
20. Use: cite news. Trim title, it ends with Story. Adj work = The Retail Bulletin Either delete publisher or use publisher = The Retail Bulletin Events Ltd
21. Adj title = ''Hi-5 Alive'' Most of the current title is the website or publisher information: fix work. If you want to, use publisher = Sawadee Public Company Limited. Partial support (Singapore tour) but New Zealand not mentioned here.
22. Per [7], [13]. Content supported.
23. If citing the podcast then use cite AV media template and give location of each event. Trim title, starts with Ep. 15. Add content at others for interviewee and interviewer. Podcast not checked, unavailable to this reviewer.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:29, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
24. Use: cite news. Fix the usual + work. If using publisher = Fairfax Media. Content at a may be time limited, i.e. Zheng's view in November 2015 would be different from that of the original line-up's in November 2000, say. At b the "international audiences" is inaccurate, Zheng is referring to non-English speaking audiences. I'd replace "international" with "these" (context provided in previous sentence).
25. Use: cite news (this is the last time I'll tell you to change the citation template, but I expect the correct ones to be used: if unsure, ask). Fix the usual + work = news.com.au If using publisher = [[News Corp Australia|News Limited]] If previously wL, then deLink and leave News Limited. Content supported.
26. Fix the usual + work. Adj publisher, if used. Content supported.
27. Fix the usual + work. Adj publisher, if used. Attribute the "quite hard..." quote to the cast member and give approx date. Otherwise content supported.
28. Fix the usual + work. Adj publisher, if used. Some content supported, no info on baby's due date. Note: Park's first Hi-5 gig, according to this source, was 4 March 2006; time line, below, has her joining on 25 April: almost two months later.
29. Fix the usual + work = [[The Sunday Times (Western Australia)|The Sunday Times]] | url = http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rgOCdldJ1IA/R-CpRkBYMJI/AAAAAAAAAJM/N6T8QhT94P0/s1600-h/sun+WA+article.jpg | title = First Person: Sun Park: Actor, Children's Entertainer | last1 = Harvey | first1 = Shannon | last2 = Park | first2 = Sun | authorlink2 = Sun Park. Adj publisher, if used. Note: The Jammed (2007) is a film she co-starred in while a member of Hi-5. It would be better if you could get The Sunday Times' actual website version, however photo version (at the adjusted url I supplied) is better than the blog url.
30. Fix the usual + work = [[The Weston & Somerset Mercury|The Weston, Worle & Somerset Mercury]] Title ends at Heroes. Park not mentioned as part of line-up on this tour.
31. Fix the usual + work + title = Hi-5 | Live Action Heroes Note: check wikicode for handling of | when in title. Content supported, covers Park in line-up.
32. This looks like a self-published source – use an official website or a news source. url provided in the blog (Mexican fan members forum?) is redirected to current homepage, so use an archive copy, see here. Fix the usual + work + title = ''Hi-5'' Star Kathy de Leon Has Baby Girl, also add agency = [[Australian Associated Press]] (AAP). "At the time" needs qualification, the previous sentence ends with touring into 2007.
33. Fix the usual + work + title. Content supported.
34. Fix the usual + work + title. Content supported.
35. Fix the usual + work (& wL). Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:44, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
36. According to this source, Hi-5's circus training began in August 2007 (one week of training then Singapore for two weeks, during August-September, then back to Australia). This is well after Harding's June accident and even after his being wheelchair-bound for six weeks. As for the ref: Fix the usual + work + title (ends at tricks). Content supported.
37. Fix the usual + work. Content about his retiring due to circus/high energy act is not supported here. Note: this ref supports conclusions in previous ref's discussion; Harding was injured in June, he's still hobbling late in August so there's no possibility of him doing any highly physical work.
38. Fix the usual + work. Adj title Sunrise, here, is the name of a TV show (curiously by rival network 7). Content supported, also mentions "unable to keep up the high energy routines required.", which is useful for previous content.
39. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Hi-5 – italics because he's talking about leaving the show). Some of the current title is the work and some the publisher. Delete language=ru!. Content supported.
40. Fix the usual + work + title. Some content supported, but Harris does not make quote, here.
41. Fix the usual + archiveurl = http://web.archive.org/web/20130410200314/http://www.stevie.com.au/stevie-articles/2007/11/11/hi5s-got-a-new-man-about-the-set/ | work = The Sun Herald | publisher = Fairfax Media. stevie.com.au | archivedate = 10 April 2013 + title = ''Hi-5''{{'}}s Got a New Man About the Set.
42. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on show name). Content supported.
43. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
44. Is this a blog? Note: Ivy Cornelia is the work, the author is also the publisher (i.e. self-published). Find a better ref for the content or delete the sentence.
45. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on show name). Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
46. Fix the usual + agency (same as in ref [32]). Content supported.
47. Fix the usual + agency (same as in ref [32], [46]). Content supported.
48. Fix the usual. Content supported.
49. Fix the usual. Content supported.
50. All good. Content supported.
51. Fix the usual + title = Meet the New Hi-5 Stars | work = PerthNow. The Sunday Times. Content supported.
52. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
53. Fix the usual. Content partially supported: don't know about "reestablishing" (by the way it should be "re-establishing" for AusEng) since the source says "many suburban and regional centres where Hi-5 has never performed before".
54. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on show name). Content supported.
55. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on show name). Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:02, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
56. Fix the usual + work. Direct quotes in previous sentence must have their own ref tab. Content supported.
57. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
58. Check author: I don't find Cara Waters anywhere. "company revealed" Who? (name the managing director). Fix the usual + work. Content partially supported, but no indication of Malaysian connection.
59. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Cast, italicise the Addams Family). Content supported.
60. I don't think this is an Official Hi-5 YouTube video: it shouldn't be used. Replace with a better, more reliable source. Content not supported by this source.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:38, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
61. Fix the usual + work + title = Casey Burgess' moving on after five years: 'It's true, I am leaving Hi-5' the rest of the current title is the work or the publisher. Content not supported: nothing about Carols or Philippines, she does provide the quote at the previous ref.
62. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Unveiled). Some content including the direct quote is supported. However, this source declares that Zheng was a new member in March 2013, other sources have Zheng joining more than a year earlier.
63. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Singapore). Content partially supported, Nick Jr. is not mentioned. This source also refers to Zheng as a new member.
64. Fix the usual + work + title = Lauren Brant quits Hi-5 for other projects in entertainment industry and growing fashion business. Content supported.
65. Fix the usual + work. Supports direct quote, some other content not covered here.
66. Supports content (covers whole sentence). Due to this ref, I'd add "and puppeteer" to Anderson's previous duties, I'd also change "previously" with "already".
67. Dead url. Content not checkable.
68. I get "Server not found". Try to find an archiveurl e.g. here. Fix the usual + work + title (starts with Hi-5). Content supported.
69. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Studio). Content supported.
70. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Hi-5). Content supported. Note: this ref should also be used for the previous sentence regarding Nicholson's authorship of children's books.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:24, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
71. Fix the usual + work + title (includes 'Whirlwind'). Content supported.
72. Has the url been over-ridden? Title is completely different. Is work The Courier-Mail or is it The Daily Telegraph? For the ref: fix the usual + work + title. Content supported.
73. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on both show names, some of current title includes either work or publisher). Content supported.
74. Fix the usual + work + title (current title includes partial work name). Content supported.
75. Fix the usual + work + title. Content supported.
76. Not a reliable site: it's his management, i.e. not independent. Content not supported; better ref needed.
77. Is this the same as ref [16]? If so, combine. At a and b assign direct quote to correct member(s) & provide time frame. Probably delete "several" from a sentence. Otherwise content is supported.
78. Fix the usual + work + title. Content supported.
79. At a: Que? How does Harriott being nomination for an APRA award support the related sentence? At b: It does not support claim that he wrote for Hi-5. Additional ref needed for both of these.
80. Fix the usual + work + title. Latter part of sentence supported: nothing on working with Harris.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:07, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
81. Fix the usual + work + title. At a content supported. Note: does have Harriot's previous work on Bananas in Pyjamas. At b give attribution for direct quote e.g. combine with previous sentence and have "she described them as" or similar.
82. Same as ref [2], combine them. Additional content is supported.
83. Fix the usual (including author name as last, first) + work (wL) + title (MoS: the ... of). Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
84. Previous sentence's direct quote requires a ref. For this ref: fix author. Content supported.
85. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Zealand). Add Example text. I think this ref supports the direct quote a few sentences ahead. Content here is supported. At b remove quote marks from "kids are universal": Foley is not directly saying this but he has been summarised by the authors as talking about it in relation to Hi-5's touring.
86. Same as ref [78], combine.
87. Seen this ref 2× before! See also [90].shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
88. Same as ref [70], combine.
89. Fix the usual + work. Content not supported as Robinson is no longer in group.
90. Seen previously: up to 4× now.
91. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
92. Same as ref [9], add any additional page number(s). This content is supported on page 41.
93. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on show name). I don't think this source is reliable... The authors are difficult to find but their first names are: Beth, Mel, Melissa, Kelly and Jane (don't know last names). All were 3rd year B.Ed. students at Flinders University in 2004, doing a Development Learning and Teaching subject (see here). They quote an early form of the show's website or a press release, which of course is not independent from the show or the band. You'll need another, more reliable & independent source.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:34, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
94. Fix the usual + work + title (italics on show name). Source's connection to the show should be acknowledge in the main text, at a change start of sentence e.g. According to the show's website, the program uses
95. Same as ref [83].
96. Can't be checked: provide further information or replace with better ref.
97. Same as ref [9], [92].
98. Don't know if this is an official account: it could be an anonymous contributor using Foley's name. If it is a bona fide official one then fix the usual + work + title (MoS: not all caps, may need italics if its a show's title).
99. Format similar to ref [83]. At a start cited quote with "no matter how rich or poor a child is they all..." The preliminary is unnecessary. Otherwise, content is supported.
100. Use Template:Cite magazine. Fix the usual + work + title ("Michelle Bridges" was the title of the previous issue's cover page article.) Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:10, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
101. Ref [14], [131].
102. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Hi-5: note italics for show name). I'd like to see Greene and Martin named as part of the Hi-5 House team and the relevant content attributed to the correct one. Otherwise content is supported.
103. Don't like "always" in 2nd sentence: didn't Harris leave in March 2008? For the ref: dead link. I can't find an archive copy. Content not supported. You'll need a better ref.
104. Same as ref [17].
105. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
106. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
107. Fix the usual + work + title (starts at: Interview). Content not supported: nothing about lack of funding.
108. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at: Circle). Content linking Nine's financial status in September 2012 to the lack of funds being invested in 2009/10 is not supported: this seems to be OR. You also need a ref for Nine selling all of Hi-5 brand in the next sentence.
109. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at: Portfolio). Greene not mentioned, here other content is supported.
110. Use Template:Cite press release, which acknowledges vested interest in this source. Combine this sentence with previous. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
111. Dead link? Use same template as previous. Add archiveurl = http://my.worldvision.com.au/resources/media/pressreleases/09-08-06/Hi-5_joins_World_Vision_in_the_fight_to_end_poverty_for_children.aspx | archivedate = 7 January 2016 Fix the usual + work + title (starts with Press Releases). Content supported and ref needed for previous sentence.
112. Fix the usual + publisher = [[Starlight Children's Foundation|Starlight Foundation]] + title (ends at: Stories). No clear indication that they stayed as ambassadors to 2015 or beyond. Ref should be used in earlier sentences both when joining and for the direct quote.
113. Bare url: get it up to GA standard. Supports content in regards to Starlight but no indication about continuing as World Vision ambassadors: needs another ref.
114. "The group" in this area is the US one? The ref is a mess. Is this Korbee's official website? The archived copy seems worse than the original. If you're going to be using this one you need to do a lot of work to improve it. Korbee claims 3 seasons not 2.
115. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Cartoonito). Talks about UK version of the TV show not the group, so Hi-5 in sentence. Otherwise content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:58, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
116. Fix the usual + work + title (italicise show name). Content partially supported, no indication of UK group's termination. When did they disband?
117. Fix the usual + work + title (italicise show name). Content partially supported, no indication that this is the 1st non-English group/show.
118. Fix the usual + work + title (ends at Announced). Content supported.
119. Dead url. I can't find an archive copy. Have a try yourself. If not you'll need another ref.
120. Add authors (see here). Most of the content is not supported at this ref.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:08, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
121. Same as [85].
122. Fix the usual + work. Content supported.
123. Same as [22]
124. Fix the usual + publisher = Australian Writers Guild | Screen Producers Association of Australia | Australian Communications and Media Authority | title = Children’s Television Standards Review Add pages number(s). Content supported, although award wins should be verified by award-giving authorities where possible.
125. Same as [72]?
126. Adj the ref per {{cite web | url = http://australian-charts.com/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Hi-5 | title = Discography Hi-5 | last = Hung | first = Steffen | work = Australian Charts Portal | publisher = Hung Medien | accessdate = 25 February 2016 }} Some content is supported except Jingle Jangle Jingle with Hi-5 at No. 5 in 2004: this may be a typo as an ARIA Report (issue 775) has it with a peak of No. 55; and Making Music at No. 61, which requires its own ref, probably another ARIA Report. Note: as a band one expects to read about popular (charting, accredited, award-winning) work. As well as their debut album, these notable albums and their specific information should be in the Lead. They should be discussed further in the main text, including critical reviews by contemporaneous reliable sources. More on this at Criterion 3, when I get there. Also note that two albums reached the NZ top 50 (see here).21:52, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
127. For this and other accreditations, consider use of Template:Cite certification, however current template also is acceptable except wL Australian Recording Industry Association at 1st appearance, remove work and ARIA Awards. Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:02, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
128. See previous. Remove work. Content supported.
129. See previous. Remove work. Content supported.
130. Handle similar to previous TE Archive refs.
131. See before.
132. Fix the usual + work + title (italicise album name). Content supported.
133. Fix the usual. Content supported.
134. Fix the usual + work/publisher + title (ends at Christmas!). Content supported.
135. Fix the usual. Content supported.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:52, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
136. Fix bare url: get it up to GA standard.
137. Fix bare url: get it up to GA standard.
138. Adj url = http://www.ariaawards.com.au/history/search/?text=hi-5&view=list This provides a list view. Consider expanding this single search entry with a cluster ref showing each year's winners and nominations. Some content supported: it does show five consecutive wins in same category but does not show how/when it was bettered by the Wiggles (you'll need a separate ref for that). You also need a reliable source for "made history by winning their fifth...".
139. Fix the usual + work. Only one award win (2004) is supported: you need more for other years. Expand this into a cluster ref to cover all wins & noms.
140. How is this a reliable source? It seems to be a text grab from somewhere. In any case, an APRA website ref is required for awards. Content not supported.
141. Fix date format. Content supported.
142. Expand recipients to include song/songlet writers. An APRA website ref is better. Content supported.
143. Adj url = http://apraamcos.com.au/awards/2000-2010/2003-awards/screen-music-awards/best-music-for-childrens-television/ Fix the usual + title. Other work is needed to reconcile this ref. Content supported.
144. Fix the usual + publisher (give full names, not just initialisms) + title (ends at Mini-Series). Content supported.
145. Expand beyond mere title. Also, in the table indicate: runner up per {{nom|Runner-up}} Content supported.
146. Fix the usual + work. Content supported, however an award website ref is better.
147. Is a web blog/forum: not reliable. Content not supported. An award website ref is needed.
148. Fix the usual + work. Only content for 2015 nom is supported. Another ref needed.
149. Expand beyond mere title. Content supported.

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:20, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

• Check that all of the "direct quotes" have an adjacent ref tab, even if the same ref is used in the next sentence or two.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
• As you can see I've fixed a few of the refs and worked on some more. There are more that required fixing up and some that are still bare urls, but I'll leave these for you.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:11, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Criterion 3

It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): b (focused):

• I have to point out that the biggest problem with the whole article is Criterion 3b: staying focussed. Is the article about Hi-5's cast or Hi-5, the band: there is a difference. Try to minimise content which is largely about the parent show (franchise or brand); obviously this does have to be described as its important but keep content more relevant to the band, itself. A lot of the peripheral stuff should be moved to other articles or deleted.
  • This has improved there are still a few points where too much detail is given for brand or media ownership.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:01, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
• Sort out redundancies between Discography and Awards sections: too much repetition.
  • This is better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:01, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:44, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

• Major aspects: since this is a band's biography I expect to see some indication of their notable products. Specifically:
  • Their debut album/single (if any) with its charting, accreditation and any major awards won. This should be in the Lead and main text not just in a discography table.
  • Any high charting album/single (say top 20 or better), or accredited platinum (or better) or a major award won. Again, should be in the Lead and main text.
• In Musical style: I'd like to see more comparison between musical styles over the 16–17 years of their existence. Currently this section mostly deals with "generation one": how have the group evolved?
• Whilst Harriott wrote most of the band's material, which specific (especially any award-nominated ones) tracks were written by/or with others? We're briefly told that the original band members co-wrote some early work, was this encouraged in later line-ups?
• Reception should provide critical reviews of a selection of their material: at least one album by each "generation".
• Did any of their works chart in other markets? Up above I found two albums in New Zealand charts. Are there more?
• The discography does not show any singles. Even if they had no chart top 50s, any singles released by the group should be listed.
• Likewise, there are no band-based video albums shown. Did any of their DVD albums chart in Australia or elsewhere? This may be difficult to separate from DVDs of the related TV shows.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:01, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Criterion 4

It follows the neutral point of view policy.

Fair representation without bias:

• Too much information is provided by band members, their management or brand/franchise owners. A greater diversity of sources on their history and output is required.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:11, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Criterion 5

It is stable.

No edit wars, etc.:

• Acceptable at this criterion.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:12, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Criterion 6

It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

• Infobox image has an appropriate licence.
  • Its caption is now suitably improved and informative.
• The complete article has only that one image! Additional images, especially of the different "generations" of the band or its non-foundation members would help illustrate the band's history.
• Consider the use of sound files for a range (say three or four) of their sound/songs. This is optional.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:30, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar: Could any of these images of live shows be used? I particularly like the first link.

http://www.glammamomma.com/2015/11/hi-5-house-of-dreams-manila-2015-schedule-and-ticket-prices/

http://dancemagazine.com.au/2010/01/hi-5s-fun-surprise/

http://areamagz.com/article/read/2015/03/06/hi5-house-hits SatDis (talk) 08:57, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

You have to establish that using these would adhere to Wikipedia:Image use policy (wL below). I see no indication that they qualify:

1. Seems to be a fansite, who owns the copyright on the images? How are they freely available?
2. A webzine? The photos appear to belong to David Wyatt or the magazine. As a commercial product it is very unlikely to be freely available.
3. Another webzine? The writer appears to be Dearesti Jodistia Rakanita but I'm not sure of the photographer. In any case, this is a commercial product and is also very unlikely to be freely available.

If you don't like the images at WikiMedia: Commons (I've already put two of these in the article).

Consider: Free image resources

or Free image search tool to find usable ones that you like.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:27, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Just enquiring! Your images are fine, I'll keep searching. SatDis (talk) 09:35, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Ongoing feedback

* Lead issues addressed. Lead shortened and reworded, references removed. I've tried "becoming a recognised musical group" instead of "successful". Trimmed television series information.

* I have removed the "TV Series" section. Initially it was to easily link to the group's other pages, but this is now written elsewhere.

Both of the above are good.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:25, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

* As for the anachronism, the television show premiered in 1999 but first went into production in 1998, i.e. When the cast auditioned, thus becoming a "group". The "group" are the "cast of the show". I have tried to minimise references to the television show and replace them with references to the band.

You say the "group" are the same as the "cast of the show". Does that mean that the puppeteers are full band members? Are they voiced by the same persons? What about the non-vocal musicians? Or are the band members just the five vocalists who are also the main on-air presenters? These are complex issues which affect the standing of people like Anderson.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:25, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

* Main text tightened in "background" and "early success". I also can't believe Harris doesn't have an article! Irrelevant information removed.

* Redundancies in discography and awards removed. I would avoid using "main article" as this is the main article. SatDis (talk) 04:38, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Both of the above are good.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:25, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

• On Crawford's name in "early success": what are you suggesting should be changed? I also thought Park should be referred to as Pezzimenti but apparently Park is her professional working name. I will fix the navband template.

I'm suggesting you have (née Hoggart) when you first introduce & wL her name in the main text. It would not have to be repeated each time thereafter. The use of her maiden name allows casual readers to understand the refs which are talking about the romance between Hoggart and Foley later in the story of Hi-5.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Have removed the repeated "(née Hoggart)"s and referred to her as Crawford alone. Is this correct? SatDis (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Paragraphs fixed, trimmed. When I wrote this I tried to include all information, so now I am learning which of the information is relevant and trimming it down. i.e. I am removing MANY references to the TV series. Name links added, years removed. Removed ref clutter.

Is good.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• I have fixed the Circus paragraph - I needed to add in that Harding begun rehearsals, however never performed the show.

Still some confusion, was the motorcycle accident part of the circus training or part of Harding's unrelated down-time activity?

* I have added that Harding's accident was unrelated to the group. Is "in his personal time" acceptable? SatDis (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Robinson supposedly helped find Burgess but did not transition her. There were a few months with no member.

If you can find a reliable source, a brief mention would help. If not don't worry it.

Unfortunately the only sources state when Robinson left, and when Burgess joined. SatDis (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• I've edited it slightly, but I just need clarification on the "younger and cheaper talent" part. How can I reword this? And should I just remove the sentence about Park denying?

I would use the Confidential ref to provide a direct quote. Try something like: In December News.com.au's ''Confidential'' reporter alleged that Hi-5's production company had asked Crawford and Foley to leave, and that the company were "opting to recruit younger, cheaper performers."[48] In this way wp is providing the allegation and assigning a source for it without making a judgement on it validity. Leave Crawford and Foley's silence and Park's denial: this provides alternate PoVs of the event.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Thankyou for the rewrite of the industry rumours, that works nicely. SatDis (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Second generation began work in January. Removed "tenth anniversary" to avoid unneccessary confusion. "Brand and finances" information removed, already covered in the latter section.
• Fixed Irvine. Went ahead and fixed Zheng roughly. I know I can remove some more references.

Both of these are better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• You raise some good points about the puppeteers. Mainly played by external cast, but sometimes the Hi-5 members. It is important to know that the group has always been recognised as the "cast" - puppeteers not usually recognised as cast. However this is up to your interpretation. I believe I have rarely mentioned puppets in tne article to avoid this confusion. As for Anderson, I believe her extra time with the group should be recognised. Technically she only played a puppet on tour and not in the television show - the only reason puppets are mentioned is because they featured on tour. This is up to your discretion.

I think the article refers to Anderson's early activities as being a "swing" member? I'm not familiar with this term for band members in this context, perhaps "auxiliary member", "touring member" or onstage performer? I agree that her earlier time before becoming a "full" member should be acknowledged.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

A "swing" is an understudy - someone to fill in if a member gets sick. I will remove the reference to being a puppeteer and just use "understudy". "Swing" may be colloquial. SatDis (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Thankyou for the feedback. Also the page just became unprotected and we've already had some IP vandalism. I hope this won't affect the review. I'd really like to get it to a good article. SatDis (talk) 09:39, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't see as you being responsible: contact an admin to see if the page protection can be reinstated due to ongoing IP vandalism and this GAR in process.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:13, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

I have sent a request. SatDis (talk) 06:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

• Well done, its on till the end of the month.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:23, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• Second generation all fixed. Maddren and Burgess explained seperately.
• Third generation - added "documentary style cinematic release". The article saying "fourth generation" is an uninformed mistake. Press has only ever described "new generations" in 2009 and 2013. // "Bigger and better" was self puffery anyway, so deleted. // "Insitution" was used by radio presenters. Should this be replaced? Check reworded "then radio presenter".

"Institution" is okay, just ref it All the rest is good..shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:52, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• For Nicholson, added "self-written" for his books. I think it wasn't clear, is this the right wording? The "masterpiece" quote was from The Daily Telegraph (and used by the group's marketing, hence importance)... should this be stated? Barrington was an understudy - there have been many many other understudies and would be far too irrelevant to include (considering how many official members there have been).

I stand better informed: thanks for that clarification.

• Clarification on the difference between dash and hyphen and correct use?

See MoS:Hyphens and the following section on Dashes. In this specific sentence the hyphen between entertainment and slick should be changed to an en dash, whereas the hyphen in "well-choreographed" stays as a hyphen.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:52, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• Reworded Melham paragraph for variation.

Is good.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:22, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• Taken up suggestion to add "see Members below" - caption names wL.

I think it looks better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:22, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• Okay I have some small objections with the "Members" suggestions. Firstly, since they are a "group" and not technically a "band", none of them play any instruments except vocals. So writing "vocals" becomes irrelevant. I feel adding "understudy" and "puppeteer" makes it extra confusing. i.e. Nicholson was only an understudy for a reported 2 days and no one recognises him for this, but rather his full run. And this information is more clearly stated in the body of the text? I have tried to include Anderson's extra run as a note. Does that work? Just my educated opinion, but I feel that this section should best depict their runs as "official members" as it gets messy quickly. This ensures a neat and readable section. Also, I have moved the section down but does it work this far down - one of the main sections still? SatDis (talk) 03:15, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

You make a good case: I'm convinced! Keep the section in the form you prefer. The Anderson note is good. I still believe the Members section should be below Reception. Remember its now accessibel from the infobox.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:22, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Excellent, thankyou! Yes it does look good there. I will have to look into the hyphen/dash issue. SatDis (talk) 12:40, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

• I feel as if I state "In February 2016 the members were" then that will have to be updated every month? Similar article The Wiggles uses "the current members are".
  • Nah, if the article had the "current members" of two months ago it would need to be updated, now. Under that regime if the article is not edited heavily then the currency of any line-up is likely to become outdated relatively quickly. The comparison with the Wiggles doesn't work particularly well: their roster has had far fewer, and less frequent, change-overs. In any case, if I was reviewing that article I'd have asked for "currently" to be replaced by "since the end of 2012" or similar.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
• I've tried substituting "distinctive" with "distinguishable" - I think that's what I wanted to say. (If that doesn't fit, maybe "recognisable"?) However I think it's justified that the music is unique in the sense that pop for kids had rarely been done. I go on to explain, "like a pop group for kids" - which alludes to S Club 7, Steps, etc.
  • I still think "unique" is puffery: they were not the only band playing pop music for children even back in 1999.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
• They do repeat songs but the article states 3000 individual compositions. This sounds like a lot but I can verify it's probably true. (Some "songlets" are 10-30 seconds...)
  • In that case "songlets" (or an equivalent term) needs to be in the article, including an example.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
• Fixed musical style a bit - heavy ammount of Harris quotes, but as the creator she is a good source to have. Other quotes on Harriott are very very rare - he is a private man. I have actually searched for more quotes about Harriott but there are NONE except from Harris. I have tried to balance her mentions. Added his previous work with Harris - other info is rare. Is a source needed for fhe info I have added?
  • Still too many Harris quotes: clearly her opinion is not neutral. Chris Harriott sources: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Certainly, most of these are brief mentions and would not be much use to establish a wp article on him, nevertheless, one or more could provide another PoV here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
• Tried to lighten up the educational theory. Replaced "tv show" with "group's content". I've removed a big chunk of the TV education model and will place that on the page for the TV series so it doesn't go to waste. Shifted the focus to how the education is reflected through the group. Reduced paragraphs. Kept information relevant to the group as a whole. SatDis (talk) 14:30, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • This is better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
  • I have to apologise, as it looks like this review will take longer than "about seven days". I hope you can bear with me.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

• A lot addressed here. Let me know if I've missed something.

I'll do another check through before I've finished the review. You'll still have time from that point to address the issues.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Added "Feb 2016" to lead. Removed "unique" puffery. I've removed the "3000 songs" but have included a brief description of feature "songs of the week" and shorter "songlets". I've added one Harriott source but unfortunately the others don't provide much more. As you can see I've worked with the quotes which have been offered.

This is getting better.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Finances - I've tried to tone down as much 'brand' and 'television' information as possible. What's left is what I think is important in the band's context. Added "employees" to lead.

Good choice.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Philanthropy is definitely the band. Added an independent source.
• Removed "other ventures" as it focuses on brand.
• Changed focus on "international versions" to the groups.

All three are okay.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• For the Logie awards - this could be moved to the TV page. However, the show starred the group, and the group accepted the awards. Therefore I would have to leave that up to you.

Since the group collected, let the Logies stay.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Discography - no public data past number 50. Have I done the referencing right? Table fixed.

ARIA Charts, publicly available data (post-2001) is archived by Pandora (via NLA) see here. The problem is wading through 100s of PDFs to find what you're looking for: have fun. I have spotted some Hi-5 entries:

1. Making Music débuted at No. 70 (issue 796), by issue 800 it was out of the top 100 after 4 weeks; it had peaked at No. 61 in that run.
2. Planet Earth release info at Issue 960 and Issue 965.
3. Turn the Music Up release info at Issue 1074.
4. Sing It Loud release info at Issue 1132, ARIA nom at Issue 1180. I can't remember whether a nom requires top 100 charting.

While I was at the Discography I tidied up the Certifying body.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Reception. I tightened this up. In the future I will look for more "reviews" and such but these are so hard to come by. I've fixed the section to make it more like actual "reception".

Greater identification is needed: who "never expected", who considers them to be "one of the world's...", who provided the critical acclaim &c.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Longer than a week is absolutely fine by me, it's a heavy article. I appreciate the effort you've put in to review, thanks. The feedback is very helpful. How is this review going so far? SatDis (talk) 08:38, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm impressed thus far. Its been pleasant working with you.

Another reminder: did you check out the toolbox?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:58, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

• Fixed Reception. Searched for albums but only Making Music charted. I can't seem to center the number. I will look at the toolbox now. I have begun the references but won't update the page until I'm all the way through. Just check the first couple? Update: I've gone through about 12 references but this is taking me forever. Bear with me. How long will I have to do the references? SatDis (talk) 10:20, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm still going through the references, myself, and I'm up to [23] on the list dated above. After I've finished [149], I'll go back over the current list. If you're fixing as you go you shouldn't be too far behind. After the refs I've got four other criteria to look at. You'll still have a week after I've finished all that to get this article knocked into GA shape.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 19:49, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

• Excellent. I'm up to date with you and I've updated the page. SatDis (talk) 07:07, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Sun Park made an appearance in March 2006. de Leon officially left on maternity leave in April (stated in the sources) - this is the month I've used as it appears regularly. I've shuffled Harding's paragraph and references around. Up to date with you. SatDis (talk) 09:01, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Found the official Hi-5 YouTube video. More sources edited and changed. Up to date. SatDis (talk) 11:03, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

[62],[63] - The source also states Zheng toured in 2012. They "reintroduced" her in 2013 with the other new members. The sources that state she was new are really really poorly researched. Zheng definitely joined in 2012 (even written in earlier press).

Thanks for clarifying this. Keep wp article with Zheng as joining in 2012.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

[94] does not require italics as it's not referencing the TV show. The group uses these theories outside of the show also.

Okay, some of these are confusing, even for me.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

[98] Foley's official account.

[107] Finance section fixed.

[113] Philanthropy fixed.

All these are good.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

[116] No indication of UK group disbanding anywhere. But they are not together today.

What if you change , later disbanding to , before disbanding ?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

[117] If it is clear that the Latin version is the first non English, but there is no reference to support it, should it be deleted?

Nah, just change being the first to being a.

33 sources to go. Also, if I find a couple of images, would you assist me in the process of uploading them? I do not know how to do this. SatDis (talk) 04:39, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

If the images are acceptable according to Wikipedia:Image use policy, I'll have a go at uploading them. Note that some of these are already usable.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• As for some of your new criteria requests, I am not sure some of these will be possible to do. Would that affect the review? (I will address this when I arrive to the issues). SatDis (talk) 04:43, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I'll have to see how you handle them. I'm still doing a second run through the criteria: so far you're doing a fantastic job.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

• Added Singles. Acceptable? SatDis (talk) 09:11, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Its a start, remove Series col, use "Santa Claus Is Coming" instead of italics, delink album title (its already linked in Discography section). I changed: is > Is11:11, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
    • Nearly finished references. Will begin to address other issues soon. SatDis (talk) 11:25, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

• [142] The nominees for this category don't appear on the APRA website.
• [146] Award category is oddly missing from official website.
• [140], [147], [148] No valid sources so info removed. SatDis (talk) 06:46, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar:

• I have addressed most issues at this stage. I can see you feel the problem is bias in sources. My response to that is I have limited material. I've used every source I could find on this article. Please feel free to help address this.
• There have been no video albums released.
  • Possible DVD reviews – they may be of the TV show but some of the content could be used to provide a range of critical opinions about the group or individuals: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
  • Some Kind of Wonderful reviews: 10, 11
  • Trove search of Hi-5, musical group: 12.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
• For evolution of musical style - this is hard. We have limited material to use as source. And the music has hardly changed - they still perform songs from the first years. At least, there is no source to help show the evolution. However I've added "Harriott has worked with a group of regular lyricists, including Chris Phillips, Leone Carey and Lisa Hoppe, who contributed to award nominated material."
  • Drop the "award nominated" bit, but otherwise this is helpful.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
• I began to use an iTunes review but found this was based on the American album. There are next to no reviews of any content on the internet. Please correct me if I'm wrong! Again, press died down as the group went on - albums didn't chart, no reviews can be found...
• I hope the limited material is not an issue at this stage. I have almost done everything I possibly can for this article!
• I'd like to thank you for your detailed work on this page. I'm curious to know if you knew anything about Hi-5 prior to this? You seem to have gained a great knowledge throughout this process.
  • I knew a little bit about them prior to this review but their style is not my cup of tea. I had heard about the "first generation" crew even before de Leon married Jones but hadn't kept up with the shifting line-ups over the years. I knew that they had won a few ARIAs (I edited a number of the individual year's award listings). However, I have certainly learnt a lot more about them by doing this review.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
• Actually, how would this work for musical style?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/23/1045935274915.html ...the Wiggles' biggest rival for children's affections, the group Hi-5. "[They] successfully explore the essential components that come together to make music: pitch, rhythm, beat, dynamics, timbre, and they combine this with rhyme and movement," he says. "Commercial? Yes. But educational, also. This all seems to me to happen gently and they seem so at one with their audience of young folk - there's no distance between them. They also seem to me to know the subtle difference between childlike and childish." SatDis (talk) 08:44, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

• • Yeah, this is good. Wilcher was an early Wiggle – before they adopted their individualistic colours. His contribution to their genesis and 1st album was quite significant. I'd read Steve Dow's story on him back when I helped fix up Wilcher's article for GAR, 2+ years ago.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:02, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I've never seen those reviews! How about something like this (I've tried not to use too many of these reviews in one).

Hi-5 has been described by reviewers as "bright, full of music and catchy tunes" (http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/121007/20110209-0000/www.aussiereviews.com/article1574.html), with the original group praised for their "consistent camaraderie, [and] varied and well coordinated talent as singers, performers, and dancers". (http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/121007/20110209-0000/www.aussiereviews.com/article1785.html) The group's appeal has been credited to the members as positive role models. (http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/121007/20110209-0000/www.aussiereviews.com/article1616.html)

These are good, but try this rewording:

Hi-5's sound was described by Sally Murphy of Aussiereviews.com as "bright, full of music and catchy tunes,"(http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/121007/20110209-0000/www.aussiereviews.com/article1574.html) with the original line-up praised by the website's Magdalena Ball for their "consistent camaraderie, [and] varied and well coordinated talent as singers, performers, and dancers."(http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/121007/20110209-0000/www.aussiereviews.com/article1785.html) Ball credited their appeal to the members being positive role models.(http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/121007/20110209-0000/www.aussiereviews.com/article1616.html)

Make sure you wikify the refs to GA standard.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:32, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

How about something like this for Wilcher's quotes in 'musical style'?

Original member of The Wiggles and classical musician Phillip Wilcher praised how Hi-5 "successfully explore the essential components that come together to make music", describing how the educational appeal "seems to happen gently and [the group] seem so at one with their audience of young folk." Wilcher stated, "They also seem to me to know the subtle difference between childlike and childish." (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/23/1045935274915.html) SatDis (talk) 11:33, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

My spin:

Original member of the Wiggles, and classical musician, Phillip Wilcher declared that Hi-5 "successfully explore the essential components that come together to make music"; he detailed how the educational appeal "seems to happen gently and [the group] seem so at one with their audience of young folk... They also seem to me to know the subtle difference between childlike and childish."(http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/23/1045935274915.html)

These should help the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:32, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Added the content. SatDis (talk) 08:22, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Overall

Overall:

Pass/Fail:

@SatDis: You have seven days to address any outstanding issues raised in this review. Have fun.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:14, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

@SatDis: The article has passed: well done.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:25, 3 March 2016 (UTC)