Talk:Ogier the Dane

Resistance

One of the Danish reistance groups, fighting the nazi occupation during World War II, was also called Holger Danske. Chances are good that Poul Anderson knew about that group. Peter Knutsen 06:42, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Why the listing under this name? I had always heard of him as Holger Danske,and believe that's the best known version. Google returns 90K hits for "Holger Danske" in English (250K without the language filter), 15K for Ogier the Dane. Just curious as to the choice. Why not put the article under Holger Danske and have Ogier redirect? Fan1967 19:10, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Because this is the English Wikipedia. --Peter Knutsen 06:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It seems like a poor choice, since the English usage must have shifted. Google searching for "Holger Danske" -tobacco -wikipedia -andersen gives 77,000 hits. Google has 119,000 hits for Holger Danske (English only) vs. 10,000 for "Ogier the Dane" with the same parameters. The page should be moved. Valentinian ^(talk) 23:11, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Right wing

As he is used more and more often as a symbol of right wing politics, should we add it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.196.107.246 (talk • contribs)

You are thinking about Dansk Front and/or similar? These groups do try to "monopolize" the image of Holger Danske, but most of the Danish people would disagree to this attempt. The same groups try to pretty much claim the Danish flag as "theirs" as well, but they don't own that symbol either. Besides, AFAIK these groups are relatively small. In my view, it would be more interesting to expand the coverage of the part of the Danish resistance movement that took its name after Holger Danske. Just my 2 cents. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 22:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The WWII resistance fighters were notable, and universally identified with the name, while the right-wingers try to identify themselves with his name, but others generally don't recognize the association. Huge difference. I think the article should be moved as well. Even as an American who speaks no Danish, I have never heard of Ogier (the Dane or any other) in my life, only Holger Danske. Fan-1967 22:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the way Holger Danske redirects to this article is plain odd. The Holger Danske article should simply be a list containing this article without the resistance group and then a new article about the resistance group should be created as Holger Danske (Resistance group). I came to this article becuse I wanted to look for/start the article on the resistance group but this needs be sorted out first. Also, why not simply move this article to Holger Danske (Mythology) and make Ogier the Dane redirect to that page? Seems to make a lot more sense to me.MartinDK 16:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Cuchullain's theory

Cuchullain maintains that Holger Danske has Danish origins here. How can this be when he originated in the continental Chansons de geste? I know the medieval Scandinavian sources quite well, and I would like to know in which medieval Danish chronicle or Norse saga he first appears. The first source that I know of is Karlamagnus' saga, which is a translation from continental sources. Moreover, when he appears in Karlamagnus' saga, he is called Oddgeir and not Holger. This makes Cuchullain's claim of Danish origins quite unlikely, because the names Oddgeir and Holger are two different Scandinavian names which suggest that the name Holger cannot be derived from the tradition of Karlamagnus' saga. Instead, it is likely a national romantic Danish adaptation of Ogier.--Berig 19:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

You are reading far too much into that. I think the previous phrasing indicated not that Ogier originated in Scandanavian material, but that the character is supposed to be Danish (at least at some point in the character's development). This is why it's important to note that "Denmark" might not have been originally intended. I think I've made it clearer now.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I think we are in agreement now.--Berig 07:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Awesome.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

English

If this is the English wiki, and his English name is Ogier the Dane, then why do I see Holger Danske at the top of the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.17.155.35 (talk) 04:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC) Just read the top part where it was decided to be changed from over a year ago. First off, Google searches aren't the end all and be all of the preffered name thing, we say in this article that there are other uses of Holger Dansk, a WWII resistance group, some modern Danish politicians. Testing this myself I get 947000 links, I see quite a few .dk links, talking about the Statue and the Kronborg, a number of hotels, some stuff about Vienna, a couple of forum posts by a guy using that tag, numerous Hans Christian Anderson links, surprise that a Danish story teller used Danish names. Ogier the Dane brings only 35100 links, but all much more pertinent to Ogier the Dane, the historic person and character in stories. Thats make it appear to be a case of quality vs. quantity, do we accept overwhelming numbers with little relevance or smaller numbers more related to the topic. Not that 35100 is such a small number that his is unheard by that name Curtana, his sword, gets a similar number of 21900, which may suggest that only about 30000 web pages have heard of him by any name. Charlemagne gets 4.27 mill vs. Charles the Great's 145 mill. Alot of useless numbers coming out of google. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.17.155.35 (talk) 04:40, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Google searches with quotes and restricted to texts in English: "Holger Danske" gets 44000 hits and "Ogier the Dane" gets 9610. PrimeHunter 04:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

English or not those mostly seem to be links to Hotels and the Kronberg, or Hans Christian Anderson, they are not links to information about the actual person and this is the English wiki it is inappropriate to use non-English words. Rules are rules, despite numbers and feelings on the subject. People who type in the Danish won't get lost, a redirect will still send them to the right place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 04:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Or perhaps more appropriatly, Holger Danske should go to a disambig page that points to Ogier here, the hotels, tobacco and Political Group, as that name seems to be much more popular for that stuff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.137.207.191 (talk) 23:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Do some spell it as Odgier or Olgier. I read a story with a heroic myth character named Ogier Gierfalcon

I have to say that, despite the google results, I think that the principles in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) make a compelling case for moving the article to "Ogier the Dane". As an alternate to the google search, I might also suggest trying a JSTOR search (or some other archive of scholarly work in the field of literature or mythology): English language results for Ogier the Dane trump Holger Danske. - NYArtsnWords (talk) 17:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I have moved the article.--Berig (talk) 15:37, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

He slew a giant?

It says he slew a "giant" while fighting the saracens. I wonder if this is a mistranslation, as "kæmpe" in Danish used to mean "warrior".

http://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?select=kæmpe,1&query=kæmpe

Kæmpe: Oprindelse fra nedertysk kempe 'kæmpe, kriger', beslægtet med kamp

(Origin of the word is from Low German kempe 'giant, warrior', related to kamp (fighting)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.235.246.242 (talk) 11:12, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Genaral commit

There seams to be some confusion on this entry because it's a multible entry.

The first entry is the historical person Orgier the danish who was living at the court of [Charlemagne].

The second entry is the tail of [Saxo Gramaticus] where Holger Danske is a mythical giant.

The third enty is the danish resistantgroup juring the 2ed World War

Nicolai Ryge — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.75.163.239 (talk) 09:03, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

"having claimed Aude to be Ogier's sister.Togeby (1969), p. 145[49][u]It" needs to be fixed

I don't know what, this is unusual ref formatting here. SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 11:13, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Pagesplit of Cortain

@SNAAAAKE!!: Is the pagesplit particularly beneficial? Cortain is more or less a cul-de-sac, and there appears to be limited scope for expansion (?) without treading into Curtana. The section could instead be relocated immediately above the "Popular culture" section, with Cortain made a redirect to section (and leaving categories in)... ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 08:59, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

I really thought it didn't fit well here. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 09:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Ogier the Dane in Chesterton's 'Ballad of the White Horse'

The ballad includes a character named Ogier the Dane as one of the chiefs among Danes attacking Wessex, similarly to Kipling's example but written earlier (1911 vs 1916) Was there a literary tradition of putting him in such a setting? 77.45.40.167 (talk) 19:30, 6 October 2022 (UTC)