Talk:Homeland

Joining Mother-, Father- and Homeland

Is there any reason for not redirecting Motherland and Fatherland to Homeland? Brallan 14:32, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense, and a number of people have suggested it on other pages. I am now merging them. SilkTork *^YES! 09:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I do not agree with this merge, now all the disamb Motherland topics are orphaned. Motherland is a completely separate word in English language and hence it should not be merged. It would be better to ref to Motherland here but then have a sep Motherland page.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 11:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I also protest this undiscussed merger. Lars T. (talk) 01:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Per this discussion i have restored it, It can be a stub in this article. It is far too common and expression on its own to be hidden in a homeland, which reminds me of American security. So these words have connotations and need their seperate space to be developed. Plus all the content on words for Motherland were lost including the fact that it orphaned disabig terms for Motherland. no solid reason for the merger.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 05:54, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

the merger is necessary simply because Motherland and Fatherland had no content other than what is here, plus a completely unreferenced list of terms.

After you copied the content here. Surprise!' 'Lars T. (talk) 20:29, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Of course it would be possible to turn Motherland and Fatherland into standalone articles, but for that we would need referenced content that goes beyond a short paragraph. --dab (𒁳) 11:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Africa the Motherland of humanity and civilization?

«The term "Motherland" is very often applied to Africa due to it being the origin of humanity and civilization», is declared in this article. Well, mmmh, yes, there seems to be full agreement on an Oldowan origin of mankind (hence civilization). But I really never heard or read anybody applying the term "Motherland" to Olduvai Gorge or the like in Africa. Would someone provide with references for such a strong expresion "very often applied"?

Zack Holly Venturi (talk) 10:12, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Fatherland merger

Fatherland needs to be merged into this article. They are the same topic. I read some comments about fatherland having a different connotation. This is mostly untrue. The word fatherland does tend to be used in different contexts than homeland but that does not make them different topics, just different words for the same topic. Regardless the fatherland article is currently mostly a lookup of translations into different languages.

--192.88.165.35 (talk) 19:19, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I completely disagree -- "Fatherland" references a Patriarchal history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.46.156.23 (talk) 16:54, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Disagree: Why bother? They have different meanings and been used differently throughout history. There's enough content for both.--Hutcher (talk) 20:10, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

• Merge Motherland has already been merged here, and Fatherland is nothing but a list of countries that use the term and some OR garbage about Nazis. --BDD (talk) 05:06, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

• Don't merge. There are two different ensembles of articles in Wikidata:
  • The Vaterland/Patria concept (from germanic/latin languages, like Vaterland in German, "fatherland" or "motherland" in English, patria in Spanish, patrie in French etc)
  • The "homeland" concept (with its own articles in the list, corresponding with this "homeland" article)

Kintaro (talk) 14:42, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Scots term

Within the 'Fatherland' heading is the bullet point: -*Scots heauinlie (besides the more common faitherland)*

I'm fairly sure that this is nonsensical. The Dictionary of the Scots language doesn't have a definition for 'heauinlie', but it arises in the supporting quotations for a number of other words from which it is clear that it is an antique spelling of 'heavenly'. I suspect the confusion has arisen from the definition for 'Patrie-(One's) fatherland or native country' which includes a quoted line from a prayer 'In my patrie of ȝour heauinlie kingdom; '

I am not and have no ambition to be an editor, and I'm not even sure if I'll get this posted successfully, but hopefully next time and editor wanders by they could look at this apparent misapprehension? Many thanks 164.134.0.180 (talk) 10:11, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

References

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Merge

Homeland, motherland, and fatherland are all synonyms. The lead in this article even says so. The key here is WP:NAD. We do not create articles simply to provide a definition of each word. Unless there is something especially important about the word itself that merits a whole article separate from topic the word describes, creating a separate article for each word is a violation of WP:NAD. As it stands, the Fatherland article is nothing but a listing of translations of the word into different languages. ???

Let's merge and clean up.

-- MC 141.131.2.3 (talk) 23:35, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree. Both articles are already short enough as is and Homeland already features a Fatherland section which is mostly a repeat of the translations already mentioned here. I say we scrap this one altogether and just copy it wholesale into the aforementioned Homeland section. Fritz1776 (talk) 17:15, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I would support this merge. I think Homeland is an obvious search term and the concepts of Fatherland and Motherland could be described as being part of the wider idea of Homeland. Dunarc (talk) 17:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Most dictionaries state that all three words are synonymous with each other and every time someone searches "motherland" they get redirected to "homeland." I believe we should just do away with this article and and contribute it to the homeland article. --Scarslayer01 (talk) 01:28, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

@Debresser: I note that you've removed one template out of two on a merge proposal with this edit, with the edit comment Discussion is very much closed. See for yourself. I can indeed see that the 2011-13 proposal, was a clear no, but I also note that this is 2018 proposal is a clear yes. Perhaps times and views have changed? Given that the discussion is for the merge, perhaps you could close it with a merge recommendation or replace the merge template and add your views here? Klbrain (talk) 16:20, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Oops. Merge template restored. Debresser (talk) 23:15, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Agree with merging Fatherland into Homeland. Debresser (talk) 23:17, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete.

Clean up WP:NAD problem

As a separate concern, the current structure/content of this article has some problems. A lot of the article is devoted to discussing which cultures use the "mother" concept and which use the "father" concept. While this is an interesting thing to discuss, it hardly deserves the space that is currently allotted. Even the "Various connotations" section largely talks about how the term is used.

IMHO the existing content should be simplified and meaningful content added. The concept of a homeland actually is an important topic. See the following as examples of scholarly discussions of homelands:

• Constitutional Design for Divided Societies: Integration Or Accommodation?
• The Philosophy of International Law
• National Identity

-- MC 141.131.2.3 (talk) 23:45, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 26 June 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 12:37, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

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• Homeland → Homeland (native land)
• Homeland (TV series) → Homeland

– Like the recently moved The Americans, the award-winning and historically significant drama TV series Homeland is the clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC here, and so this use, though the root term of many other uses including Homeland security, needs to be disambiguated since the page view stats show there is relatively very little interest in this article (for better or for worse), and the vast, vast majority of those searching with "homeland" are searching for the TV series, and are not served well by being taken to this article. Four to five THOUSAND users view the TV series page daily; while the others get 200 or fewer each, including the ones when a WP search for the series incorrectly takes the user to this page. This is not a close at all by any measure. If you support this move in general but prefer a different disambiguator (or a different title altogether), please support and propose the alternative disambiguator in your comment. A hatnote to Homeland (disambiguation) will be more than adequate to manage the few that end up at this page mistakenly. В²C ☎ 17:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose 2nd per WP:ASTONISH, User:Andrewa/Incoming links and PT#2 however I'm comfortable with putting the DAB page at the base name as a compromise. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:08, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
  • The MOS and a user space essay do not trump policy and guidelines. --В²C ☎ 20:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Guideline, not policy. Also, as I argue below, the guideline does not in reality support your proposal. Debresser (talk) 21:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Just to be pedantic, WP:MOS is a guideline. Colin M (talk) 22:56, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose 2nd Even if the series' page is visited more, but it still is not the obvious first meaning of the term. Also, the interest in the article about the series will dwindle with time after the series ends, while the term "Homeland" will always be part of the English language. Debresser (talk) 21:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
  • The "obvious first meaning of the term" is not what PRIMARYTOPIC means. In fact, it says the exact opposite of that. See: Wikipedia:Disambiguation#Not_.22what_first_comes_to_.28your.29_mind.22: in no case does "what comes first to mind" to any particular person have much bearing, either positive or negative, on which topic, if any, actually is the primary topic. Just because the TV series does not come to mind first to you when you hear "homeland", I'm sure it does to the thousands of users who seek and read the TV series article every single day. --В²C ☎ 21:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
• Strong oppose and speedy close - ridiculous that the concept the TV show was NAMED FOR is suggested to be secondary. A TV show while its airing is of course going to have a temporary boost in page views. This drops significantly once the show concludes and trails off progressively over time. This proposal is both ridiculous on the long-term significance basis because its title derives from the broader concept - but it also is inevitably going to fail on the usage due to this sure drop in page views to come. -- Netoholic @ 10:56, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
  • I don't think it's ridiculous a priori to have a case where A is named after B and A is the primary topic over B. The primary topic for Forrest Gump is the 1994 film, not the 1986 novel on which it's based. The primary topic for Macbeth is the Shakespeare play, not the historical figure with that name that the play is about. Colin M (talk) 21:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
• Strong oppose, speedy close and possibly consider further action regarding proposer - pushing a personal crusade on titling, again, and shows a complete misunderstanding of the basic principles of an encyclopedia. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. The primary topic is generally the one which has long-term significance. Celia Homeford (talk) 12:49, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose 2nd per WP:ASTONISH. However, I'm neutral on 1st move, so I'd support a disambiguation page at the basename. Paintspot Infez (talk) 23:54, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose – B2C ignores the concept of longterm significance in the primarytopic grab proposal for a popular TV series. Dicklyon (talk) 05:29, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as In ictu oculi --Pierpao (talk) 13:03, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.