Talk:Angevin

Requested move 07 November 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the page, as per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:24, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

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House of Anjou → Angevin – The term "Angevin" is more broad than the current title, as the page makes clear. Srnec (talk) 00:31, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Comment "Angevin" was cut and pasted to Angevin kings of England in 2009 (at the time, that article was located at "House of Anjou"), I've requested a histmerge -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 05:13, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment histmerge has been completed -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 06:02, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
• Comment on the face of it, it appears this should not be a disambiguation page (or it requires a lot of cleanup and pruning to become a compliant disambiguation page. older ≠ wiser 16:52, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

• Support - sensible piece of tidying Norfolkbigfish (talk) 16:29, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

• Support as accurately reflecting the term that the page attempts to disambiguate. —  AjaxSmack  02:15, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose. Surely only the English kings were referred to as Angevins? This is a disambiguation page referring to four different houses. Also, it's either Angevin as an adjective (which we shouldn't use as a page title) or Angevins plural. Although we usually use singular forms for page names it wouldn't make sense in this case, as it clearly refers to the entire family but isn't actually their surname. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

  Angevin may refer to anything from Anjou (Angevin dialect, Angevin castle, Angevin countryside). It is certainly used to describe the later kings of Naples and Hungary, scions of the Capetian dynasty. It looks like we'll need two, largely duplicative, disambiguation pages. Srnec (talk) 19:16, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

  The root of this is that it doesn't clearly refer to one family and as you point out was not actually a surname. It has even been used to describe a form of coinage. The OED uses Of or pertaining to Anjou, a former province of France, or any sovereign, government, etc., derived thence but notes in English history this especially refers to the kings. On Wikipedia it used equally prominently for the totally unrelated Charles I of Naples and his descendants. Not even sure if this comment helps or hinders but it does reflect how difficult this is to define. Pragmatically speaking more than one page doesn't seem to make sense. Norfolkbigfish (talk) 10:51, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.