Talk:Humphrey Bogart

Verita Bouvaire-Thompson

Should she be mentioned here?--Kmhkmh (talk) 21:35, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Pop Culture insertions

@Kesc4399: Your insistence in the insertion of Year of The Cat as inspired by H. Bogart, is bordering on EDIT WARRING. Please stop and discuss this here with the community. Do not add back until consensus is reached here, per BRD. I have, once again, removed it, per wp:Status Quo. Additional input here by other editors is welcome. Thanks, GenQuest ^"scribble" 14:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, given that the song was inspired by Casablanca (per the Financial Times article I cited) it is at least as deserving of mention as Higgins's "Key Largo", already mentioned in the section. The fact that Stewart thought the generic phrase "Bogart movie" was enough to summon a specific atmosphere shows that he thought Bogart was associated with a particular kind of movie; that the song was a hit, reaching Number 8 on the Billboard Top 100 in 1976, shows Stewart was correct in his assumption; audiences knew exactly what he meant by "Bogart movie". Try replacing some other actor for Bogart and see if it works. By using the phrase "Bogart movie", Stewart expands his reference beyond Casablanca to include The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep and the rest. Please explain why Mr. Higgins's song merits mentioning and not Mr. Stewart's song. (I'm also wondering what "anime/fiction look-alike speculation", which you called my edit, means.) Kevin Charles Schoonover (talk) 02:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@GenQuest: Mr. Stewart's song begins with the line "On a morning from a Bogart movie..." The song was inspired by Casablanca, as stated in the Financial Times article I cited. Why not include it under the Casablanca entry? Because Stewart doesn't mention Casablanca explicitly; he uses the more general "Bogart movie", thereby referencing The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, and Bogart's other great films. Stewart assumed the generic phrase "Bogart movie" was enough to conjure the atmosphere of a particular kind of movie. The fact that the song was a hit, reaching number 8 on the Billboard Hot 100, shows he was right. Stewart's song is at least as significant as Bernie Higgins's song "Key Largo", which is already mentioned under "In Popular Culture." If you insist on removing my reference to Mr. Stewart's song, why don't you remove the reference Mr. Higgins's song, too? You had warned me that "anime/fiction look-alike speculation WILL BE removed." I have no idea what that means, and I'm fairly certain Mr. Stewart has never thought of his song in those terms. So, to wit: The song was inspired by Casablanca, per the Financial Times, although it uses the more general phrase "Bogart movie"; the fact that Stewart felt "Bogart movie" was enough to conjure a specific atmosphere shows the actor's iconic status; the fact that the song was a hit shows Stewart was right; and Stewart's song is at least as worthy of mention as Higgins's song, which is already mentioned in the section. Kevin Charles Schoonover (talk) 15:09, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

"But Stewart doesn't mention a specific Bogart movie!" you may say. Quite right, although he was inspired by Casablanca, as described in the Financial Times article I cited. He used the generic "Bogart movie." So the reference doesn't belong on the page for Casablanca, it belongs on the page for Bogart. That Stewart assumed "Bogart movie" was enough to conjure a specific atmosphere shows Bogart's iconic status. That Stewart's song was a hit, reaching Number 8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1976, shows he was correct in an assumption; people knew exactly what Stewart meant by "the morning from a Bogart movie." The fact that "Bogart movie" works shows that the actor was strongly associated in the public imagination with a particular kind of movie; not only Casablanca but The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep, etc. "Bogart movies" are almost a genre unto themselves, as evidenced by the song. This is at least as significant as the mention of "Bogie and Bacall" in Bernie Higgins's "Key Largo", already mentioned in the section. If you insist on removing Stewart's reference to Bogart in "Year of the Cat", why not remove the reference to "Key Largo"? Fair's fair. (For the record, I don't think the reference to "Key Largo" should be removed, but Mr. Stewart's song is just as, if not more, significant.) Hardly a mere "pop culture insertion", seeing that Stewart was inspired by a Bogart movie and felt that the phrase "Bogart movie" was enough to conjure a specific atmosphere; what's more, he was right, as evidenced by his song's success. Kevin Charles Schoonover (talk) 20:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Legacy and Tributes/ In popular culture

I had added that Al Stewart, in his 1976 song "Year of the Cat", paid tribute to Bogart; the song begins "On a morning from a Bogart movie..." Stewart's song was inspired by Casablanca, per the Financial Times article I cited. Why not include it on the Casablanca page? Because it it uses the generic "Bogart movie". That Stewart felt the phrase was enough to summon a particular atmosphere shows he thought Bogart was associated with a particular kind of movie. That Stewart's song was a hit, reaching #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1977, shows Stewart was correct in his assumption. Higgins's "Key Largo", another song mentioning Bogart, is already mentioned in the section. Stewart's song is at least as worthy of mentioning, as it is a tribute in a notable piece of popular culture (the signature song of an important artist and, as I mentioned, a hit on the Billboard Hot 100.) That audiences knew what Stewart meant by "a morning from a Bogart movie" twenty years after Bogart's passing shows his enduring, iconic status. If that's not a tribute, what is? Kevin Charles Schoonover (talk) 04:42, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Passing mentions are not worth the space. If you asked a hundred film fans who've heard Stewart's song what its connection is to Bogart, you'd get a lot of puzzled expressions. I've never heard of Bertie Higgins or his song, but the lyrics (and title) show a much stronger tie-in. Clarityfiend (talk) 12:56, 12 April 2023 (UTC)