Talk:Incidents in the Gaza War (2008–2009)

Ridiculous article title and organization - serious incidents

Cerejota, I don't know how you determined that this was a good idea. Removing all of this information from the main article and grouping it here under this title is pure OR and it's ridiculous.

I suggest this information be restored to the main article under it can be determined how to deal with it correctly. We do need to spin out articles from the main one, but not this way. I propose we work on creating articles on Attacks on United Nations facilities in the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict and Attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure in the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict. The information on the blockade busting ships can be put into its own article on International civilian efforts to break the blockade on Gaza. All of these can link back to the main article and the information here can be split between them.

I appreciate that you are only trying to help get the main article down to a reasonable size, but this is not the way to do it. Tiamut^talk 12:52, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Tiamut, WP:SUMMARY is well in order, and this was proposed and the discussion archived in 18. I have requested "Move" protection, because we need to discuss before further changes are made. All of the articles you propose are valid, but WP:SUMMARY suggests we split as the orignal article's sections are. Lets discuss on the main article, ok?--Cerejota (talk) 15:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I also support attempts to get the main article down to size but this is not the way to do it. Strongly support this be restored to the main article. RomaC (talk) 09:12, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

There is no way to do it since it has been treated as a recent news article used primarily by editors who aren't neutral.Cptnono (talk) 06:14, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

This article needs to be ultimately deleted. Per Tiamut's suggestion, this article should be split into Attacks on United Nations facilities in the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict and Attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure in the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict. Imad marie (talk) 20:23, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how splitting it up even more would be an improvement. I agree that the existing structure of the article could be improved, perhaps by rearranging it into sections along the lines suggested above, eg. [1] attacks on UN facilities [2] attacks on civilians. Logicman1966 (talk) 23:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

There is much more information to add on the two subejcts Imad Marie outlined above. I have held off on adding aything else to this article until there is consensus on how to proceed. But I would like to see the two articles created, expanded and then linked back to the main article 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict with summaries of those articles contents there. The article on the 2006 Lebanon war has similar structure, which is where the idea derived. Tiamut^talk 00:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Logicman, the current title of the article is just vague, what do "incidents" refer to exactly? there are dozens and hundred of incidents that occurred in the war. Having an article called "Attacks on United Nations facilities" for example would be far clearer and targeting a specific area. Imad marie (talk) 07:38, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I have divided the article into 3 main sections, which I think should be eventually split into 3 articles, or at least 2 ("Attacks on United Nations facilities" and "Attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure"). Imad marie (talk) 09:13, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

One Sided Article

All I see is Israeli soldiers did this, Isreal IDF did that, define "Incidents" here because there were lots on both sides. This is almost a list of wrongs targeted against Israel and while these things may be true I feel as if this article is one sided.Knowledgekid8719:31, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Feel free to add incidents from the Palestinian side if you think the article is not balanced. Logicman1966 (talk) 02:13, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I suggest reading the discussion above and collaborating with others on how to restructure the article before making any more additions. This article may not survive in its current form. All this material was removed from the main article 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict and shoved into this side article. I see bias in that decision too Knowledgekid87, but from the other side of that cut, if you know what I mean. Tiamut^talk 00:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

The article should be retitled "Bad Things by Israel". I don't think anyone looks let alone edits this article unless they have a point to make about Israel. So far, the concise summaries in the main article do fine and all this fluff is not needed.Cptnono (talk) 01:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Follow-up: Just noticed that several incidents have there own articles. Again, I think the summaries in the main article are sufficient. Is there any basis to nominate this page for deletion?Cptnono (talk) 02:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Disregard my previous mention of the summaries being fine in the other article. It is now just a list and the summaries are not worked in sufficiently. Still doesn't look like anyone looks at this page at this time.Cptnono (talk) 10:34, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

=Bias

This article is very one-sided, and actually only describes the bad things Israel did. In the "Attacks on civilians" I don't see any mentioning of Hamas' fire of rockets with the intention of killing Israeli civilians. I would rename this article to "Incidents performed by Israel in the 2008-2009 Israel-Gaza conflict" and then a second article on the Incidents performed by Hamas should be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.212.66.174 (talk) 18:22, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Al Fakhura "incident" - propose to strike out

In view of Globe and Mail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090129.wgazaschool29/EmailBNStory/International/ investigation in which the UN confirms that (1) the school was not hit (2) nobody died in the school; I propose to strike out this section entirely and remove the detailed article accompanying it from the Wikipedia. I assume good intentions for both editors and media (and even the politicians who were quick to comment) and put it down to "the fog of war". But now that the "fog" has been cleared - Wikipedia must be tidied up. Politicalguy1234 (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I would find an additional reference, post both references as a reason and remove the section then. There is also another article for the Al Fakhura "incident" that you should post this info in. Knowledgekid8716:27, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Following the Globe and Mail story, Haaretz investigated the incident and reported here http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061189.html that "Maxwell Gaylord, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Jerusalem, said Monday ...that the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school." ". In view of this I am performing the proposed edit. Politicalguy1234 (talk) 17:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

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