Talk:Iris Menas

Requested move 29 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved.(closed by non-admin page mover) estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:30, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

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Iris menas → Iris Menas – Despite some sources saying Menas prefers having lower-case spelling of the name, all the reliable sources available seem to use the correctly capitalised 'spelling' of it - requested move to open a discussion. Alssa1 (talk) 18:28, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

• The Variety source you link to uses lower-case letters in the text, though not in the headline. Cordless Larry (talk) 07:59, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose: IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes are hardly reliable sources, and as Cordless Larry mentioned, Variety uses lowercase in the body (and even mentions that they use lowercase). It is well established that they want lowercase DeputyBeagle (talk) 09:34, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:19, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom.–MinisterOfReligion ^(Talk) 18:35, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
• Soft oppose based on sources. IMDB and RT aren't reliable, are typically WP:UGC and as they have standardized profile pages might actually have fixed case for the names in their stylesheets (although I can't be sure). The only other source I recognize here (Variety) actually says the subject prefers lowercase letters further down and uses them in-body, but chose to keep their title format consistent as they are probably required to. We might need better sources to support this. ASUKITE 13:53, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
• Soft support. The article cites three sources (Variety, UPI and KWCH). Two of those three use conventional capitalization of the name. The third one, as noted above, has a mixture. Wikipedia avoids unconventional capitalization unless it is consistently used in independent reliable sources, which does not seem to be the case here. Even if ignoring IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, the sources don't show consistent usage of lowercase. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:04, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

The relevant section of the Wikipedia guidelines seems to be MOS:LCITEMS. It says "Wikipedia articles may use lower-case variants of personal names if they have regular and established use in reliable third-party sources (for example, k.d. lang)." (emphasis added). (For the first word of a sentence, it says "the first letter of the personal name should be capitalized regardless of personal preference"; I just edited the article to apply that rule to a few sentences that started with "menas".) Note that the first sentence of both the k.d. lang and bell hooks articles does not start with a lowercase letter, and when lang's surname is used at the start of a sentence, it is capitalized, and the bell hooks article never uses her surname at the start of a sentence. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:27, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah the article definitely needs some rejigging. I think the difference between menas and hooks though is that bell hooks is a pen name, so we can start the first sentence with her real name. It's a bit different with menas

We should def reword the rest of it though to avoid their name being the first word in a sentence DeputyBeagle (talk) 22:48, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

For what it's worth, there are other sources using lowercase eg Slate and Cinemablend

I think the issue is that they're still early into their career so the quantity (and debatably quality) of the sources covering them is lacking, except ones with stock templates such as IMDb DeputyBeagle (talk) 22:46, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

• Support. There's already a source explaining the preference, and it's better for consistency to follow our manual of style while acknowledging that preference.~TPW 14:17, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

My 2 cents

To cite WP:COMMONNAME here is gross. menas is a person, not a city or an object. They have made clear their preferred spelling of their name. Why would we respect a person's preferred pronouns and yet not respect a person's preferred spelling of their own name? Curbon7 (talk) 02:39, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Name Stylization

I’ve edited the page to note the subject stylizes their name with all lowercase letters, as opposed to just starting the article with all lowercase. This fits Wikipedia guidelines for similar situations such as “P!nk”, and reflects the decision to move the article as discussed above. 198.166.142.125 (talk) 20:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I've undone your changes as I don't think they're correct for this page. Your example of pink is different as that is their stage name, as opposed to menas who just has a way they want their legal name spelled.

The most relevant example would be bell hooks where it says "(styled in lowercase)", but that is also a pen name

I can't find any other precedent for this situation, so imo we should find a way to rephrase to not put the name at the start of the sentence rather than adding a capitalised variant DeputyBeagle (talk) 11:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)