Talk:Ismael Díaz (Salvadoran footballer)

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Requested move 27 June 2018

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved with respect to the footballers by date of birth, not moved with respect to the one by date of death (except for the proposed diacritic correction. This is a tangled discussion, but there is consensus for the date of birth moves, and an absence of consensus for the date of death move. Furthermore, with respect to that proposal, although it has been noted in the discussion that "footballing nationality is fluid", there is no other Salvadoran footballer by this name, and this article subject appears to have been born in El Salvador, played only for Salvadoran teams, or for the country of El Salvador, and died in El Salvador. There is no likelihood of confusion here. bd2412 T 16:08, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

• Ismaél Díaz (Salvadoran footballer) → Ismael Díaz (footballer, died 1976)
• Ismael Díaz (Dominican footballer) → Ismael Díaz (footballer, born 1990)
• Ismael Díaz (Panamanian footballer) → Ismael Díaz (footballer, born 1997)

– From what I saw in other articles, it is better to use in brackets years of birth (or death if birth is not known) than nationalities. Also, Ismael in Spanish-speaking countries like this case (El Salvador) does not carry an accent on the "e" because it ends in "l" (that is, not an "n", an "s" or a vowel). Similarly, move Ismael Díaz (Dominican footballer) to Ismael Díaz (footballer, born 1990) and Ismael Díaz (Panamanian footballer) to Ismael Díaz (footballer, born 1997). MonFrontieres (talk) 22:24, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Note: set RM discussion to multi. Hhkohh (talk) 12:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sportspeople)#Association football (soccer): nationality is used when it provides easier disambiguation than year of birth. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:31, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Hhkohh (talk) 12:57, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• Support Dominican and Panamanian (ie move to 'born'), but oppose Salvadoran (we should not use 'died'). Preference and practice is for YOB rather than nationality. GiantSnowman 14:49, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Support The ones with born year, but oppose the one with year of death, Govvy (talk) 18:33, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
• Commentary Similar articles: Jack Cameron (footballer, died 1916), Dick Smith (footballer, died 1909), Alfred Thompson (footballer, died 1922).--MonFrontieres (talk) 22:41, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

• They're disambiguated like that because there is more than one footballer of the same nationality and their birth years are either not known or the same as another footballer of the same nationality. So, we can't use the preferred disambiguators (nationality or birth year) in those cases. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:16, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Nationality is more decisive here given one person's year of birth is unknown. While he obviously wasn't born in 1990 or 1997, we should still use the simplest and most decisive, which is nationality. Smartyllama (talk) 17:19, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

• @Smartyllama: except, of course, footballing nationality is fluid. Ricky Shakes was born in England but has played for both Trinidad & Tobago and Guyana at international level. If you had to disambiguate him how would you do so...? GiantSnowman 08:43, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support all, provided that "died" is a legitimate disambiguator as indicated by the similar articles. I agree with Giant on "footballing nationality is fluid", but have no issue if nationality is used. These countries aren't very popular and could easily be confused with each other, thus it's better to use birth/death. Just my 2c from a glance. The editor whose username is Z0 15:24, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.