Talk:Unification of Italy

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Too many images

@Yakme and LukeWiller: I saw the {{Too many images}} tag on this article about a week ago, placed by Yakme, so I went to work removing and rearranging a number of images, resulting in this version, which I thought was pretty decent so I removed the tag. Then LukeWiller came along and restored several images, claiming they're essential to the article. Yakme then restored the tag, despite showing no intention of addressing the issue or initiating a discussion about it. So I guess I'll be the one to do that instead.

Personally I think the current version still isn't too bad, but there are two sections that could definitely lose a few images: Towards the Kingdom of Italy and Culture and Risorgimento. Both of these sections are quite full and have some sandwiching going on. So let's try to reach a consensus: which images can be removed? Lennart97 (talk) 14:03, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you: the current version of the article is not bad, but some tweaking is needed. I also agree to remove some images in the Culture and Risorgimento section, and to rationalize the images in Towards the Kingdom of Italy. In the latter case, however, a problem arises: in my opinion a photo of Victor Emmanuel II and a photo of Cavour, in the article, are necessary, given the importance that the two characters had in the Italian unification. LukeWiller (talk) 14:46, 22 December 2021 (UTC).

I have been thinking on the problem of the double image of Victor Emmanuel II and Cavour in the section Towards the Kingdom of Italy: what if we moved it to the "Background" section ? This paragraph deals with the opposite, that is, the premises, while the photos show the end of the Italian unification process. The logic of my proposal could also be there: but would such a solution be acceptable on Wikipedia in English? Maybe we could change the caption of the double image. --LukeWiller (talk) 22:12, 22 December 2021 (UTC).

The Background section has some room for it, yes, but in principle it's bad practice to place images in section where their subjects aren't mentioned. Maybe we could leave it where it is and drop the painting of the Battle of Magenta instead, possibly Calatafimi too? I do think that we don't need so many paintings of battles, they all kinda look the same anyway and don't provide any real illustration of the text. In the next subsection, maybe either the Battle of Volturno or "people cheering as Garibaldi enters Naples" can go. Lennart97 (talk) 09:14, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

There are currently 35 images in the article + 8 maps in the bottom of the article. I guess this qualifies as "too many images", especially because some of them look completely unnecessary to me (like the satirical cartoon, for example, or the many paintings/drawings of battles). I am no expert of history so I do not know how to tackle the issue, and that is why I just left the tag without more action on the problem, but this is what Wikipedia is about: I can point out that objectively there is a problem with an article, but I am not obligated to solve it at all. So please do not say that I must somehow "show intention of addressing the issue" otherwise my observations are less valid. --Yakme (talk) 08:17, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Sure, they're no less valid, but there really was no need for this re–revert when it would have been so much more productive to start this discussion with LukeWiller and me, for which zero expertise and barely any effort would have been required. Lennart97 (talk) 09:21, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Since I'm the only one who wants the images of Victor Emmanuel II and Cavour in the section Towards the Kingdom of Italy, you can delete them without adding them in other sections. For the "Background" section we could insert this map with caption "Map of Italy in 1559 after the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis, after which the domination of foreign nations on the country began". LukeWiller (talk) 14:42, 23 December 2021 (UTC).

Actually, I'd prefer removing the Battle of Magenta painting over the portraits, but I'll let you choose. As for the map, we could include it, but currently there's no mention of the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis or the war that it ended, so that content should probably be added first. Have you considered which image we could remove from "Defeat of the Kingdom of Naples"? Lennart97 (talk) 18:34, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Ok for the removal of the Battle of Magenta. We could remove, from "Defeat of the Kingdom of Naples", the Battle of Volturno. I have added the mention of the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis in the article: for the caption of the map, it would be better "Map of Italy in 1559 after the Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis, which ended the Italian Wars." LukeWiller (talk) 18:05, 25 December 2021 (UTC).

All done. That leaves the Culture section. I think either The Kiss or Italia turrita will have to go, and turrita is the least essential to the text. The rest is probably fine; we could lose one writer portrait and one Verdi–related image but in principle there's enough space for them, so I don't feel strongly about it. Lennart97 (talk) 19:32, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm undecided too. Note that The Kiss, which is one of the most famous paintings of the Risorgimento, so theoretically it should be kept, was painted by Francesco Hayez, and another painting by this painter is present just below, in the "Literature" chapter (it would therefore be a bit of a duplicate, giving it perhaps exaggerated importance, given that two of his works would be present in a small space), the one portraying Alessandro Manzoni. To which I add the fact that Antonio Canova is among the most famous Italian sculptors, and the monument with the Italia Turrita is also described in the text. What if we maintain the image with Italia Turrita ? The Kiss also has an article dedicated to itself, where the reader can see the image and approach the topic. I realized that the information on the Italian tricolour was missing, which I added: it is if we put, in place of the map of Italy after Peace of Cateau-Cambrésis, the image of the flag the Cispadane Republic with caption "Flag of the Cispadane Republic, which was the first Italian tricolour adopted by a sovereign Italian state (1797)" ? It is more linked to the Risorgimento than the map of 1559. LukeWiller (talk) 21:56, 25 December 2021 (UTC).

I've removed The Kiss and replaced the map by the flag as you suggested. I think with that the image situation is sufficiently resolved, so I've removed the tag again. Lennart97 (talk) 14:41, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks. Yes, I agree with you on removing the tag. Now the article is ok. LukeWiller (talk) 15:12, 26 December 2021 (UTC),