Talk:Jäger (infantry)

March 2005

While merging all the Jäger(s)/Jaeger(s)/Jager(s) pages I have tried to relink all the military references to this page, regardless of spelling. Thus if spelling is "special" for some unit or unit type you describe here, you may want to call attention to it. — B.Bryant 21:58, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• However, we still have Finnish Jäger troops which IMO we should merge here, as a named section. — B.Bryant 21:58, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Requested move: Jäger (military) → Jäger

There is no need for disambiguation in the page title, since all the other kinds of Jägers have different names. The current disambiguation page can be moved Jäger → Jäger (disambiguation)

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support [this is my proposal] —Michael Z. 2005-03-31 01:34 Z

• Oppose – Actually, the company Jäger has the same name (though no page yet), and more Jäger meanings may be added in the future. Moreover, the great variety of spelling variations suggests that people might land at Jäger even for some other meanings that are conventionally spelled differently. — B.Bryant 01:55, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

Actually, the company Jäger has the same name (though no page yet), and more Jäger meanings may be added in the future. Moreover, the great variety of spelling variations suggests that people might land at Jäger even for some other meanings that are conventionally spelled differently. — B.Bryant 01:55, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• BTW, all those changes I made today were because we had two disambiguation pages and several pages marked "merge" (three, IIRC). In fact, this page was named Jägers, and Jäger was a REDIRECT page to it. Now all the spellings "Jäger(s)/Jaeger(s)/Jager(s)" are REDIRECTs to Jäger, and the only two narrow-topic pages I could find have been relegated to Jäger (military) and Jaeger (bird). If we stick with this plan we won't end up with another big hairball like we had until a few hours ago. — B.Bryant 01:55, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • But don't you think it would be good for one article to own the name?—the other definitions would be a single prominent click away. The bird lives at Skua, since Jaeger is only a subset of them. I think the military term used for a couple hundred years is more prominent and popular than an aquarium equipment company. I guess hunter is the most basic definition, but it seems to be more of a Wiktionary definition. —Michael Z. 2005-03-31 04:55 Z
    • Per the question in your first sentence, no, I don't think articles should own ambiguous names. — B.Bryant 05:05, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Intuitively, I agree with Bobby Bryant. As a non-native speaker of English, I don't allow myself to have opinions of preference between Jägers and Jäger, nor between Jaeger and Jäger. The only thing of importance is that we don't use the (mis-)spelling Jaeger for them that actually are called Jägers (or Jääkari). /Tuomas 11:28, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The trouble is that the word "Jäger" is that it is as overworked in German militray parlance as "hunter" is in English. The word Jäger in German also covers military craft like jäger/(Kämpfer)=fighter, (at least minhunters have the name "Minensuchboot" which is much more precise than the English equivelent). Isn't there a danger that the word Jager (military) ends up as a disambiguation page as well? Why not have just one disambiguation page and a number of diffrent pages for diffrent types of military Jäger? Philip Baird Shearer 16:25, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Decision

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. Agreeing with PBS's comments above. violet/riga (t) 08:53, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

die erste deutsche Jägereinheit (the earlíest germany jagers)

In 1631 the first known German Jägereinheit (jager unit) was depolyed in the landgraviate Hessen-Kassel. (German Wikipedia: Die aus Jägern und Forstleuten bereits 1631 unter der Regentschaft von Landgraf Wilhelm V. von Hessen-Kassel aufgestellte Jägertruppe ist die älteste im deutschen Sprachraum.)

But this article is really inconsistent. Because it is about an infantry branch and also about a class of tanks and a class of military aircrafts and a class of navy ships. It would be better if there is one articel for each of this topics.

To introduce Jäger infantry in 1631 was a total new way of tactics on the battle fields in Europe and the first step forwards to modern infantry tactics. There are also deduced modern forms of Jäger infantry, as Gebirgsjäger (mountain infantry), Falschirmjäger (paratroops) and an the old form of Feldjäger. This day Feldjäger are commissioned whit the role of military police to(?) German Bunderwehr (army). In Austrian Bundesheer (army) military Jäger (Jagdkommando) are a sort of elite infantry. And last but not least the Jägerregiment 1 founded in 2006 and based in Schwarzenborn, HESSE is the most modern infantry concept in German Bundeswehr.

Johann (von) Ewald a Hesse Jäger captain and later on a Danish general, was the first German author writing about guerrilla war when he was deliberating his experience made till the insurgence in the colonies (vulgo USA). Hope my kind of English is not to hard to understand. Thomas[Special:Contributions/178.201.84.100|178.201.84.100]] (talk) 20:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

What means Jäger? A Jäger is basically a (professional / highly skilled) hunter. Professional because in German countries in the old days (till 1848) the right to hunt was not given to all people. Because of that there where only well trained professional hunters. The use of the word Jäger in military coherency means infantry (or something) who is able to operate autonomous, highly effective AND first and foremost under conditions of Auftrakstaktik. Autragstaktik is when the mission goal is given by the high command but the unit comander of the jager detachment is free to find the way to achieve that aim and whitout having contact to his high command while his unit is independently operating. The contrary of Auftragstaktik (tactic of mission) is Befehlstaktik (tactic of order), the unit is normally operating whith constant contact to high command and under Befehlstaktik the hc is determinating the way to achies the aim (f.e. move at 6:00 a.m. via position x,y,z to point A. Attack from position A, at 7:15 a.m. with 200 men, ememy in postion B. and use your right wing in this way and your left wing in that way, and so on and on ... .). So a jager detchament is featured to run a mission whitout support from other branch of service. When Jäger is used as a name of a category of planes or a category of tanks or a category of ships basically this means the thing is able to affect enemy autonomous whitout support from other branch and often under conditions of Auftragstaktik. Hope someone can decrypt my sort of English. Thomas 178.202.238.121 (talk) 07:53, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Maybe I'm wrong but another translation for Jäger might be ranger as in "US Army Ranger" for example. Actually "ranger" translates as "Förster" or "Wildhüter" but I think it could also be used as a proper translation for Jäger. Like I said, I might be wrong! Any other ideas? --92.223.57.22 (talk) 15:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

in older meanning you can do that - better Jäger is light infanterie including sharp shooters — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.157.196 (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

92.223.57.22 is right. Although Rogers Rangers origin is not exactly the same in the times of insurgency (war of independence) Rogers Rangers were the American reflection of a kind of Jäger troop concept. The Hessian Greencoats were dreaded on battle field but also respected as professional soldiers. When Hauptmann (captain) Johann (von) Ewald becam POW he was honored by general Henry Knox white an invaitation to Fort West Point. Still today Jäger(s) are more than light infaterie plus sharp shooters. The Jäger profil of capability today is (der infanteristische Kampf im bedeckten und durchschnittenen Gelände, sowie im urbanen Gelände im Orts- und Häuserkampf) to operate in thick forest in secondary mountain and cuttings, in built-up and urban area, urban warefare and house-to-house fighting. --88.152.224.211 (talk) 12:22, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

i m missing a desription of Jäger during 1775

in American Revolutionary War with german contigents  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.175.42 (talk) 11:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 

Post-World War II

"Also employed as elite commando troops for protection of Electronic Warfare units and for protection and transport of nuclear weapons that were under the control of SACEUR (Supreme Allied Command Europe)." - this wrong. guards security companies of the artillery (Artilleriebegleitbatterie) and division guards bataillon (Sicherungsbataillon) are artillery or grenadier troops see for that german article Artillerie MH Germany — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.157.196 (talk) 18:33, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

"With the latest restructuring of the German Army, only one new air-mobile regiment the Jägerregiment 1 (JgRgt 1) and two battalions Jägerbataillon 291 (JgBtl 291) and Jägerbataillon 292 (JgBtl 292), (both battalions as part of the German-French brigade) and the Jäger companie at the Wachbataillon, of regular Jäger are retained. On the other hand, Fallschirmjäger have become the most important infantry type, due to their versatility and the nature of modern-day peacekeeping missions abroad." - Jägerregiment in solution new 3 Jägerbataillone+2 Jägerbataillone DF Brigade + 3 Gebirgsjägerbataillons + 2 Parachute Regiments MH — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.183.157.196 (talk) 18:37, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

new start

somebody under 121.73.91.201 blamed it as "Revert well-intentioned additions that contain numerous spelling and other errors. They also duplicate information already present in the article and distort its time sequence." But fact is beside spelling errors the english version is also not right and also so its time sequence. Instead of this I would like to see the right spellt version of what is written below.

Jäger (Jaeger) troop was first establisht in Hesse-Kassel in the year 1631 as an elite infantry. It members were selected out of loyal professional hunters, gamekeepers and foresters. Jaegers take their owne rifles and their Hirschfänger (hunting dagger in form of an short sword) on to the battle field and opperated independent from line troops as marksmen, reconnaissance, commando and courier. The impressive skills and expertise and their dependability made them outstandig soldiers. When Mr. George Washington first saw the Hessian troops on the american battle field which consits out of Jaegers and grenadiers he rated them as best soldiers of the world. The Hesse conception was copied soon by Prussia and other German states. Later on also by foreign states like Finland.

Till the occupation of Hesse-Kassel in 1866 and later one as part of the prussian army and also the German Bundeswehr still hessische Jäger were existing. In 2006 the new Jägerregimet 1 was established in Schwarzenborn (Knüllgebirge) a little town in the Hesse heartland. Jägerregiment 1 holds now also the faculty of air assault beside this it is not only a air assult regimet as it is inaccurately described here in english Wikipedia. Jäger in a German military context still marks elite infantry like Fallschirmjäger (para troops) and Gebirgsjäger (mountain infantry) and also high potential planes (fighter plane) an tanks for eaxample Jagdpanzer. --88.152.224.211 (talk) 23:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Please provide source references supporting the material that you want incorporated in the article and we can make content, spelling, grammar and style changes as warranted. 1631 as the date for the establishment of the first Jäger unit is a surprisingly early date since English language sources indicate that rifled weapons, whether for hunting or warfare, were not developed until about the first half of the 18th century. George Washington's comment about the quality of the Hessian Jägers might well be worth including in the main text but again a reference citation supporting this quotation will be necessary. Finally, while an updating of the modern military useages of "Jäger" would be welcome, references to air force, paratroop and other unit designations already appear in the article. Please specify where these are inaccurate or incomplete. You state that the new Jägerregimet 1 is not just an air assault regiment - what then are its other roles?Buistr (talk) 08:17, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Quelle Nr. 1: Die Geschichte der hessischen Jäger lässt sich in die Zeit des Dreißigjährigen Krieges zurückverfolgen. Unter Landgraf Wilhelm V. wurde eine Jägertruppe zu drei Kompanien gebildet. Sie war mit Büchsen bewaffnet und nahm am Sturm auf Fritzlar im August 1631 und an der Erstürmung von Volkmarsen 1632 teil. Have a look at Kurhessisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 11 German Wikipedia. Büchse means rifle. ... 1781 verteidigt Kapitän Ewald mit 33 Jägern einen Pass gegen 800 Aufständische unter dem Kommando des Generals La Fayette. Nach drei erfolglosen Sturmversuchen gab La Fayette auf. 1781 the captain Ewald (later General Johann von Ewald, born in Kassel, see Johann von Ewald) stops together with his 33 Jäger 800 rebells under the commando of La Fayett while they three times tried to pass a Mountain pass. Than General La Fayett gave up. This Jäger Hauptmann Johann Ewald later published the first German book about how to fight against insurgents (sorry Americans) in guerrilla warfare. The book: Johann Ewald: Abhandlung über den kleinen Krieg, erschienen bei Johann Jacob Cramer, Cassel (Kassel), 1785. Just one more for tonight, this time copied from English Wikipedia: Although experts argue the fine points of origin and lineage, it is accepted that the longrifle was the product of German gunsmiths who immigrated to new settlements in Pennsylvania and Virginia as early as the 1620s. ... This rifle were called yaeger or jaeger. Please have a look on Kentucky rifle --88.152.224.211 (talk) 21:19, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

92.223.57.22 (see topic above) is right. Although Rogers Rangers origin is not exactly the same in the times of insurgency (war of independence) Rogers Rangers were the American reflection of a kind of Jäger troop concept. The Hessian Greencoats were dreaded on battle field but also respected as professional soldiers. When Hauptmann (captain) Johann (von) Ewald becam POW he was honored by general Henry Knox white an invaitation to Fort West Point. Still today Jäger(s) are more than light infaterie plus sharp shooters. The Jäger profil of capability today is (der infanteristische Kampf im bedeckten und durchschnittenen Gelände, sowie im urbanen Gelände im Orts- und Häuserkampf) to operate in thick forest in secondary mountain and cuttings, in built-up and urban area, urban warefare and house-to-house fighting. --88.152.224.211 (talk) 12:24, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Gesselschaft für hessische Militär- und Zivilgeschichte (Hessian Society for Military and Civil History) http://www.hessen-militär.de/20.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.152.224.211 (talk) 16:53, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Bundeswehr

In the third paragraph it says “Conversely, in the modern German army (Bundeswehr), …”. Bundeswehr is all the armed forces of Germany, not just the army. The German word for army is Heer. Solri89 (talk) 12:19, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

napoleon aera

In theory the Jäger operated in pairs to protect each other while reloading, and remained within 100–200 yards of close-order infantry on which they could fall back if they were endangered by cavalry or driven off by infantry. - wrong that is the job of the fusiliers, third line of line infantery. Jäger operating in the flank and forward for recconnaissance 2003:EF:370C:5779:1FC:C81B:D017:F0CF (talk) 17:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Aircraft and tank destroyers

"During the 20th century, Jäger became the German word for fighter aircraft, while Panzerjäger was the name adopted for tank destroyers." - I am not convinced that this is to be mentioned, for lack of relevance for the topic. Fighter aircraft are called Jäger because it is their task to hunt down and kill enemy aircraft - as is for tank destroyers, respectively. But Jäger infantry units are not called that way because it's their task to hunt down and kill enemy soldiers - well, it is their task, but not quite differently from any other soldier - but because of their skills of independently operating in rough terrain. I would take out aircraft and tank destroyes from the introduction. --KnightMove (talk) 14:10, 27 October 2021 (UTC)