Talk:Jarral

Untitled

Some staight forward materials are now provided which hopfully will not violate anything.

Kind regards

--Raja 21:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikified and tidy up completed

Have done the above and also added some extra info re this tribe. Have removed the wikify and clean up tags. Article completely improved.--Raja 09:13, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Tonne of crap here. Ghori's battle with jarral tough and rest easy. Janjua Pal, who the hell is he and when did he rule hastinapur? A captive converts to Islam and converts his entire family!! Are you even serious on what you write. I am going to erase this unless you convince me otherwise.

+10 000 thundering typhoons 09:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)+

Strange. What is being questioned here? that they converted as one of the earliest Rajas to Islam? What evidence do you have to refute this? Saheb Shen was not a captive at all. He brought to the court at Ghori's insistance to meet him. He accpted Islam and his family (immediate Royal family) became Muslim with him. This has occurred many times in many clans. The rest of the tribe converted over the years. They have family records confirming this conversion, what reason do you have to refute this other than your childish xenaphobic extremist propoganda? Evidence please, not childish abuse. Be adult and genuine this time, whoever you are. After being banned you've taken another name and are now hassling this page. If you would like to meet in person with a family record keeper this can be arranged Im sure, if you can come that is,lol.--Raja 18:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Desist from personal attacks. Remember WP:NPA. Cite references for claims you have made.

+10 000 thundering typhoons 07:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)+

Repeat, what is being questioned here? Their conversion to Islam? Please cite sources to the contrary. Can you? There were no personal attacks, it was a genuine offer to introduce you to the family record keeper of the Jarral Rajputs. You've obviously come from the Rajput arbcom ban under a different name now. In that case you should be the one desisting from vandalism and POV pushing.--Raja 22:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Onus is on you to cite. No I have not come from any ban. Stop talking non-sense.

+10 000 thundering typhoons 07:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)+

Now now, no personl attacks please :) And you are wrong, you have objected to the reference of conversion, therefore, what is the basis for your objection? And it's funny how you appeared suddenly since the the bans on Rajput arbcom...--Raja 21:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

You need to provide page numbers from these references. Janjua Pal's link with Janmaejaya needs to be shown. Nanak Sena's story needs to come with page numbers from a reputable source. Janjua Pal's dates of existence is required. Story of covnersion has to come with cross checkable page numbers.

+10 000 thundering typhoons 07:58, 8 March 2006 (UTC)+

Hmm. You clearly are a troll my dear. Go back to the Rajput page as you clearly are inept at contributing here. When you reach adulthood perhaps you may understand what you are doing.--Raja 18:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Gilgit

I am unaware of any major role played by non-Gilgiti or Chitrali officers in the Gilgit revolt. I am certain that the two gentlemen mentioned were in the Kashmir State forces, and may have taken part in the revolt, but they did not paly instrumental roles.

Considering one of them arrested the Governor Brigadier Ghansara Singh I'd call that a significant role. Certainly no officer of insignificance can claim such a feat> Col Hassan Khan was a decorated soldier of his time. YOu certainly need to do some research on this affair with the defence journals Fred, --Raja 09:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Even if the particular officers palyed a role, no large group of Muslim Rajputs from the lower hills contributed towards the liberation of Gilgit. It was an entirely Dardic revolt by the Dardic peoples of Gilgit and Chitral.

Now if you actually read the paragraph, it stated a small group, amongst MANY groups. The revolt comprised of many tribes, and the such is clearly mentioned.--Raja 09:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

This account is highly biased and historically inaccurate.

Well your points above have been clarified as not well read, can you offer contrary evidence? Seeing as references have been shown on the page, below --Raja 09:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do some more research and later update the page.

I'd heartily recommend you to do the same seeing as this page is completely sourced ;-) --Raja 09:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Correct name? ...and other issues

Is the correct name Jarral, as the title of the article reads now, or Jaraal, as a newer editor entered? If the latter, and it can be cited and referenced, the article should be moved to a new page with the correct name, and an appropriate redirect created. If the former, the page bears watching for inappropriate and inaccurate changes.

I also reverted a large amount of unreferenced and unencyclopedic material, added at the same time as the name changes. I try very, very hard not to bite the newcomers, but I still have to keep an eye on verifiability and proper sourcing and referencing. So if you're the one who added that material, be bold and add it again...just make sure to cite the references you use! --Alan (talk) 16:08, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

The correct name is spelt 'Jarral'. It is used throughout the family as a surname, written in English by majority of Jarrals both muslims and hindus. All websites and search engines response well to the search 'Jarral'. There is no response to 'Jaraal'. I have been researching the 'Jarrals' for over two decades now and feel comfortable in recommending to keep 'Jarral'.

I'm hoping to provide some tidy up on main article by containing an account of events in the order of time. It might be worthwhile mentioning that the article appear to represent one section of the Jarrals (upto 1846AD) and seems to provide minimum coverage for events thereafter. To be fair to all, it should be allowed to cover articles of values to date including events/ personalities/ cultures/ religions etc. I hope my input is treated as constructive attitude. TariqJarral (talk) 00:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Some relevant articles been placed back while some new ones added. Hopefully I haven't violated anything. I will try to put references in place near future. To the best of my ability and with time restraints, an effort's been made to represent articles & materials related to jarrals from all walks of life. The page's articles now provides a balanced approach and a hopefully quick insight to Jarral history and current affairs.

Kind regards

Tariq Nazir Jarral (Luton U.K.)TariqJarral (talk) 04:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Changes to Jarral Personalities section Education/Police/ Science

I have noticed that a particular IP address from Saudi Arabia is deleted above mentioned sections from this page. Please before you delete anything can you please, as a common curtesey,state your reasons for doing so. This information was provided to give readers, from all walk of life, a general understanding of Jarral history as well as the diverse fields that they adopted as a profession.

Kind regards

Tariq Nazir Jarral —Preceding unsigned comment added by TariqJarral (talk • contribs) 05:27, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Conversion to Islam section unture

Jarrals were not converted by Ghori but rather by Sultan Firoz Shah. In the Book History of India 'under the Conquest of Kangra' section the following passage makes it very clear when the Rajauri people became muslims.

"The people of Rájaur were originally Hindús. Sultán Fíroz con­verted them. Nevertheless, their chiefs are still styled Rájás. Practices which prevailed during the times of their ignorance are still observed amongst them. Thus, wives immolate them­selves alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands, and bury themselves alive in their graves. It was reported that, only a few days ago, a girl of twelve years old had buried herself with her husband. Indigent parents strangle their female offspring immediately after birth. They associate and intermarry with Hindús—giving and taking daughters. As for taking, it does not so much matter; but, as for giving their own daughters— heaven protect us! Orders were issued prohibiting these prac­tices for the future, and punishments enjoined for their infraction."

Clean up

This article still needs a huge clean up. I have removed some of the more egregious stuff but, honestly, unless someone can turn the list of sources into proper citations (with page numbers, ISBNs, links etc where appropriate) then about 80% of what remains will also be deleted. - Sitush (talk) 19:23, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Reverted

I've just reverted the additions made by User:Sohanjaryal for several reasons. A lot of it was irrelevant and not about the Jarral people at all, some of what was relevant was a straight copy from other Wikipedia articles, and what was actually new was completely unsourced. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Reverted again

I have just reverted again. Please do not restore poor old versions of this article, nor add original research. Raj sources, for example, are nearly always unreliable and any source that is added needs to be referenced in a decent manner (see WP:Citing sources for details). - Sitush (talk) 20:11, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

 The exact dynasty/cast was Jaryal. It might be the historical or some other reasons that the cast dynasty/caste "JARYAL" stood changed to that of  "Jarial" or "Jaral" or "Jarral".  In my opinion, it should be written as "Jaryal".  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.89.13.4 (talk) 16:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC) 

Kashmiri tribes

Is there any evidence to show that the Jarral are not native to the Kashmir region? Category:Kashmiri tribes seems entirely appropriate unless this is so, and even then it might be appropriate because the category is vague in scope. - Sitush (talk) 10:54, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Now this depends on what this category Kashmiri Tribes is meant for. By your standard, even the Gujjars that live in Kashmir valley then must be classified as a Kashmiri tribe, but it is not so. In general terms Kashmiri tribes would refer to ethnically Kashmiri people and Jarral are not one of them. They originate in Punjab.Saqiboberoi (talk) 11:14, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Precisely. The category needs to be defined. So go start a discussion about that somewhere. Until you do, it is valid here. - Sitush (talk) 11:19, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

It is very much self defined by it's title "Kashmiri Tribes". For any who has some understanding of the ethnic groups of the region will know that it is a non-kashmiri tribe. The category Punjabi Tribes has also been added to the article. So which category does it belong to? These two categories are not identical.Saqiboberoi (talk) 11:25, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Also there are scores of non-kashmiri castes and tribes in the region of Azad Kashmir(Pakistan) and Jammu & Kashmir(Inida). If we go by defining all of them as Kashmiri Tribes then you need to place all of them in this category including Dogras, Gujjars, Jatts, etc. This would actually defeat the purpose of have the "Kashmiri Tribes" category and will be misleading and create confusion.Saqiboberoi (talk) 11:37, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

The source doesn't actually say what ethnicity these people are. It merely notes that they appear in the Rajauri area. Anyway, I've opened a discussion at the category talk page and I have flagged it at WT:INB. - Sitush (talk) 11:42, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Saqiboberoi has been blocked as part of a large sockfarm. - Sitush (talk) 14:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)