Talk:Jim Taylor (fullback)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: MPJ-DK (talk · contribs) 04:29, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I will be starting the review of this article in the very near future. I usually leave my review comments in a couple of rounds.  MPJ-DK  04:29, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

Alright so first here is my first round of feedback

Sources

• A couple of references change links slightly, I would recommend that they get updated to the current links to prevent link rot (reference 2, 43, 54), but otherwise the links are fine. I will do a reference check to make sure they're covering what they are supposed to as I review the article content. Y

Copyright violations

• The tool had a couple of high percentage hits but looking them over I believe they are all quotes pr stats and thus acceptable. This checks out. Y

General review

• Everywhere you have a yard measurement you should have " " between the number and the measurement

 Question: Ech. Is there an automated process I can use to do this? Lizard (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

I am not aware of one unfortunately.  MPJ-DK  02:59, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Images

• The one image in the article looks to be appropriately tagged as Public Domain, looking at when Taylor played it is prior to 1977 and I have no reason to suspect it's not correct Y

General review

• Lead

• I am not seeing a source anywhere for his date of birth or place of birth? It's in the lead and info box but not sourced? I'd think that'd be easy to do?

 Done. I've gone and sourced birth info in the Early years section. Lizard (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

• NFL career statistics

• Sources for the statistics??

 Done. Lizard (talk) 19:16, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

General review

• Lead

• "penchant for contact" should be "a penchant for contact"

 Done. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• five-straight = five straight

 Done. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• "recognized as the NFL Most Valuable Player" - That makes it seem like it was "Most Valuable Player Ever"? It was just for that season right?

 Question: I would think it's expected that the average reader understands that MVP nearly always refers to a single season, no?. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

You are probably right about that. it's fine the way it is.  MPJ-DK  02:59, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• ", the only season in which Jim Brown did not lead the league in rushing yards during his career." that seems like a side note and not really relevant for the lead, it's about Taylor, not Brown so I think this could be left out.

I wavered on that, but I decided to include it in the lead for two reasons: 1) Taylor and Brown's careers coincided, so Taylor was frequently compared with Brown and 2) Taylor is fairly well-known for being the only one to dethrone Brown (although Brown actually finished behind four players that year); most sources make it a point to attach that tidbit when mentioning Taylor led the league in rushing in 1962. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

That makes sense then, if dethroning Brown is really the most impressive part of the accomplishment I am okay with it in the lead. MPJ-DK  02:59, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• "in scoring twice and" I assume that's "two seasons" not "two games" right?

 Done. Changed it to "in scoring in 1956 and 1957". Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• "His 81 rushing touchdowns scored with the Packers" should be "His 81 rushing touchdowns for the Packers"

 Done. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• Early years and college

• "a combination that caused frustration for opposing defenses.", this is not a neutral statement so it needs to be attributed to a source.

 Done. Admittedly that's a bit of OR on my part, so I reworded. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• I am not sure what the sentence starting with "Against Texas Tech that season" is trying to convey?

It's supposed to convey that because Texas Tech was so focused on Taylor, Cannon was able to have a big day. This sentence and the one that follows were meant to provide support for the "combination that caused frustration for opposing defenses" sentence. I changed the wording around a bit. Lizard (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I see, the frustration stemmed from the fact that if they chose to focus on one then the other would have a strong game. Maybe that's the approach to rewording the "caused frustration" statement to something along the line of how two strong players made it hard for opponents to give efficient coverage to two strong players at once?  MPJ-DK  02:59, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Precisely, but it's probably still WP:OR, as I'm forming that conclusion based on my own analysis. Sadly I wasn't able to find a source that specifically stated the combination was difficult to deal with. Probably because LSU didn't have a very successful year overall that season. Lizard (talk) 03:07, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

• 1958-1962

• The inclusion of "through 2016" can make the article seem dated, if it was left out everyone would assume it was still the worst. This way the article would HAVE to be updated after each season, without it it'd only have to be updated if the Packers had a worse season.

• Per WP:ASOF, I figured updating after each season is better than leaving it ambiguous. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "first-year head coach Ray "Scooter" McLean" - question, was it his first year as head coach or just his first year as head coach for the Packers?

 Done. Clarified with "first-year NFL head coach". Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "that was not to be renewed, McLean resigned days" - Well no if the contract was not renewed he did not resign, unless he basically went "you can't fire me, I quit"?

• That's one of the few parts I left in from a previous editor. I looked it up, and that does look to be the case. I've added this reference to support. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "the feature back" unless that's a football position I am not familiar with I believe it should be "the featured back"?

• See the last sentence in the lead of Running back. Also wikt:feature back. I'm not sure why but it's always said that way. Weird, I know. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• For a non-neutral statement such as "considered arguably the best running back duo in the league at the time" I really think we'd need more than one source making such a claim. WP:PEACOCK worries come with such a statement.

 Done. replaced it with a more neutral statement. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "1,101 yards on a league-high 230 carries" - The phrase "on 230 carries" sounds odd, would "1,101 yards in a league-high 230 carries" be okay?

• Although not very formal and I try to avoid it when I can, that's typical verbiage in football among sportswriters. "300 yards on 20 for 30 passing attempts," "125 yards on 8 catches," etc. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "Taylor's finest season was 1962." - could it be rephrased to be more factual, neutral? "productive", "successful" or words to that effect maybe?

 Done. Changed to "productive" and sourced. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• 1962 championship game

• "every play, and engaged" does not need the comma

 Done. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• I don't think "trash-talk" is hyphenated

 Done. According to OED, looks like it's hyphenated as a verb but not as a noun. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• 1963–1966

• "five-straight" again not hyphenated

 Done. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "season, and the" does not need the comma

 Done. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "in the Packers' 23–12 win over the Browns in the" if you replace the first "in" with "during" it sounds less repetitive.

 Done. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "passes that year, but recorded" does not need the comma

 Done. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• "the West" I assume that's the "West Division"? if so please state so.

 Done. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• Playing style

• "widely acknowledged by his peers as one of the toughest and meanest players in the NFL" - something I do not see supported by the source listed?

 Done. Whoops, I was gonna source that more adequately but I guess I forgot. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• Rivalry with Sam Huff

• "Boxing promoter Al Flora offered Taylor and Huff $2,000 for a four-round boxing match on the day of the 1962 championship game." - was it ever acknowledged by either or just a media stunt by Flora?

• I tried to find more on this, and it looks like this article may have more on it but I can't access it. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• Follow-up: I managed to access it through someone else and I've now updated accordingly. Lizard (talk) 17:04, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• I believe that's the entirety of my review, I see you are already making great improvements so I will put this on hold while you continue to work on this. No rush, take your time.  MPJ-DK  01:44, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• I think that's everything. Thanks for the thorough review. Lizard (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

• The changes are good, the places where you explained why the article is the way it is makes sense to me so I am going to go ahead and pass it for GA. Congratulations