Talk:John B. Poindexter

A little perplexed why the talk page was deleted, but @Blythwood: are you satisfied with the link add from Forbes or was it presumptive to remove the tag? More information is needed beyond the biography of Poindexter for military service? Optim.usprime (talk) 00:35, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

See deleted section below that was deleted (& "military service" section of infobox was deleted). I would be interested in seeing more sources, but not sure that his biography should be questioned since Poindexter definitely did fight in Vietnam. Optim.usprime (talk) 00:47, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

So did tens of thousands of other men and women. That in itself is not encyclopedically noteworthy. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:19, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Military Service

John was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in armor in the Vietnam war in 1967. After receiving command of L Troop, John commanded Headquarters Troop and Alpha Troop, 1st Squadron, successively, in 1969 and 1970. Along with several other decorations, John was awarded the Soldier’s Medal and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry with Silver Star. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Optim.usprime (talk • contribs) 00:47, 23 February 2016

And you know this how? Please read WP:BLP. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:12, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

The tag you added for his career is fair as not every detail is fully corroborated by the Forbes link I added, although Forbes does note that Poindexter worked for Salomon Brothers before moving into private equity. Forbes also notes that Poindexter had a military career ("In 1970, he was 25-year-old captain in the U.S. Army’s 11th Cavalry") that should probably be added back into the article somewhere. Let's work to remove tags on this article to keep it as clean as possible. Optim.usprime (talk) 01:45, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Feel free, obviously, to add whatever Forbes says specifically about his military career. I've cleaned up the citations, filling them out, and have started adding archive links — since while I feel the topic does not reach notability, its citations should be done properly as long as they're here. As for the current uncited claims, it's the responsibility of whoever adds a claim to verify it. --Tenebrae (talk) 04:33, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

A little disconcerting that you would sooner slap tags on an article in the hopes of taking it down than work to clean up the "citation needed" for the career section. With wikipedia articles running as wide as Save Toby and everywhere else, this is a strange thing to decide ought be deleted.. Optim.usprime (talk) 19:42, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

I beg your pardon. I spent a good deal of time cleaning up the poorly footnoted citations here, and even began archiving links. So please don't cast aspersions my way when it's every editor's own responsibility to RS-cite their claims. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:18, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Tenebre, you added an "article title" to a few citations, which takes about 3 minutes to do, while erasing the many decorations of this Vietnam war veteran, erasing any mention of him from Antonin Scalia's page, all while calling my unbiased observation that you are in an edit war with User:24.27.96.84 (talk), despite the fact that you yourself called it an edit war, "harassing". Please stop vandalizing. 209.140.37.167 (talk) 21:18, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

It's very clear you're a sockpuppet account using multiple IP addresses and, I believe, one registered address, so don't talk about edit-warring or vandalism, or used the word "unbiased." If I had more time I'd open up a sock investigation.

It took me a great deal more time than three minutes to fix all the citation formatting errors, but since you clearly don't know how long it takes to format things properly, including adding wikilinks that actually go to the magazines, etc., they're supposed to go to, then it's not worth discussing with you.

If you can't provide any hard WP:RS evidence of military service, that you don't include it. Period. That's not me, that's WP:BLP and WP:EXCEPTIONAL. Why don't you read and learn Wikipedia policies and guidelines before attacking editors who follow the rules? --Tenebrae (talk) 21:54, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Multiple-account abuse

User:209.140.44.16 has just been blocked for trolling. User:209.140.37.167 and User:209.140.36.15 are, as I noted, clearly the same individual, whom I suspect is also a registered user. These are all single-purpose accounts evidently designed to leverage Scalia's death in order to promote this businessman. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:36, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

What? These IPs (or as you call them, "clearly the same individual") have not once edited this article. When googling "John Poindexter" after the death of Antonin Scalia, I struggled to find information about him, so I found it noteworthy to add this man, who is a tremendously wealthy businessman, decorated war vet and the last man to see Antonin Scalia alive. So far, it appears you are the only one to disagree. Optim.usprime (talk) 23:54, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Please — the deletion discussion has just started and might go 30 days.

RE: "a tremendously wealthy businessman" — Just because you're rich doesn't mean you're encyclopedically notable.

RE: "decorated war vet" — So are tens of thousands of other men and women who fought in Vietnam. Being a decorated Vietnam vet doesn't automatically make you encyclopedically notable.

RE: "the last man to see Antonin Scalia alive" — First, not necessarily so. A butler may well have been. The sources are saying Poindexter is the one who found him. That's a different thing ... and neither in and of itself makes a person encyclopedically notable. If it did, every first responder to a celebrity's death would get an article. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:07, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

So far, you are the only one who has objected to this article.

RE: "the last man to see Antonin Scalia alive", Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/John_B._Poindexter has 4 links specifically saying that he was. Did you even read them? Beyond that, a captain in the vietnam war and widely regarded businessmen, who has already had many press releases detailing him and his life is enough. He is even linked to in the Cibolo Creek Ranch article, which Poindexter owns.. Optim.usprime (talk) 00:19, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thunder Run

Are these cites to a legitimate, peer-reviewed journal? The only Thunder Run showing up readily in Google are an unrelated book about the war in Baghdad [1] and a race. Given that military enlistment and certainly medals and citations are generally public and online, I'm finding it odd that the only cite for these claims is some obscure journal that may or may not be RS. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:47, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Since the apparently COI anon IP operating under multiple accounts has been quite active on Wikipedia since I've posted this, and since I can find nothing to indicate Thunder Run is a real journal, not even at http://www.thunderrun.us/, it's beginning to seem as if this is not an RS source, and not a source available to other editors for review. Putting in dubious citations, particularly about WP:EXCEPTIONAL claims such as those of awards and honors, is very serious, and if no evidence is given to support this source, I will be removing it tomorrow. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:19, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I added Thunder Run, and am in no way a COI editor. There's sufficient evidence of its existance and nature. As far as being a reliable source goes, I consider a Veteran's periodical to be significantly more likely to get awards and decorations factchecked and correct than a general source. For instance while a number of them are listed here and here -- direct sourcing is likely despite them having Editors. TR plus possibly one or more general sources should be satisfactory to establish military honours. Additionally, his medals appear in the second photo here. That said, I'm happy enough for a WP:THIRDOPINION from (eg) an uninvolved WP:MILHIST member. ^~~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~~ 07:10, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Medals were also listed in his bio in the Jan/Feb issue of Armor. ^~~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~~ 07:18, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Antonin Scalia

Not mentioned in this article anymore? Poindexter unquestionably, Discovered Antonin Scalia's body (2 , 3 , 4 , 5)

As it was written previously,"Antonin Scalia was last reported alive at Poindexter's ranch in Cibolo Creek by Presidio County, Texas Sheriff Danny Dominguez and pronounced dead by Presidio County, Texas Judge Cinderela Guevara" is not entirely accurate. Poindexter called Danny Dominguez telling Dominguez that Scalia died of natural causes. The two then called Juanita Bishop & David Beebe, both unwilling to pronounce Scalia dead over the phone, before Guevara did so. 209.140.41.165 (talk) 02:38, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

That Scalia died at the Cibolo Creek Ranch is already noted in the article on the Ranch, as well as in the article on Scalia. That Poindexter, rather than a resort employee, found Scalia in his room, and made the phone call to the Sheriff's office, is not noteworthy.--Pechmerle (talk) 10:48, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

WP:EXCEPTIONAL

Anytime there is a claim of "world's largest," "world's biggest," etc. we need WP:EXCEPTIONAL sourcing. The claim that JPB is the world's largest manufacturer of commercial truck bodies is based solely on a boosterish local trade magazine that appears to be taking its information right from the company press release and supplies no numbers, attribution or anything else for that remarkable claim. Given the existence of gigantic manufacturers of heavy equipment in China for domestic use, the claim is dubious, and I'm finding nothing to support it.

The best I could find is a 2015 mention in a small newspaper, the Reading Eagle of Reading Pennsylvania, which says that a Morgantown, Pennsylvania subsidiary, the Morgan Corp., is the country's largest manufacturer solely of "Class 3 to 7 dry freight and refrigerated truck bodies": "Texas company buys Reading Truck Body", Wednesday November 4, 2015 12:01 AM, "JBPCO also owns truck body manufacturer Morgan Corp., which it purchased in 1990. Morgan, founded by Elton Mountz in Morgantown, is the country's largest manufacturer of Class 3 to 7 dry freight and refrigerated truck bodies."

Even this mention about the country's largest this-or-that needs more than just one small newspaper as a cite. For now, though, the "largest in the world" claim is unsupported. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:12, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

The second source is Forbes -- http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/30/poindexter-trucks-vietnam-entrepreneurs-medal.html. I used biz journal because it was from 2010 rather than 2009. ^~~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~~ 02:43, 28 February 2016 (UTC)