Talk:John B. Fenn

Another John Fenn

There seem to be more than one "John Fenn": the article John_Fenn is about the antiquary, the article John_Bennett_Fenn is about the Nobel Prize winner, but most links meant for John_Bennett_Fenn seem to point to John_Fenn 142.157.64.42 03:52, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

• I think I have corrected this now Ephebi 22:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 17:38, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Bennett Fenn/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ealdgyth - Talk 14:16, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this article shortly. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:16, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   needs more information in the lead and some prose spots that could use clarification

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

• Lead:
  • This is an article about Fenn, so why do we devote so much space in the lad to the information about Wuthrich? Suggest culling everything about Wuthrich from the lead, it's not germane to Fenn.
    • I culled most of it, just mentioning that he was awarded the other half of the award. With the additional info on Fenn added later, I think the balance is better.
  • The lead is too short for the size of the article - suggest incorporating a bit on where Fenn was born, about the lawsuit, and his publications. The lawsuit especially needs coverage in the lead, as it occupies three paragraphs in the article body but is not mentioned at all in the lead.
    • Exapnded the lead, now covers his publications, and the lawsuit. I think I hit the main points, please let me know f you think I am still missing something.
• Early life:
  • A.B. degree? Link or explanation? Not everyone is going to be familiar with US degrees.
    • Swapped it out for bachelor's degree, with a wikilink
  • "Despite his success, Fenn always felt that his mathematical skills were a hindrance in his career." Despite what success?
    • Added "future" to clarify.
• Research:
  • "Fenn and his colleague James Mullen became disenchanted with the direction of work at Monsanto, and they resigned together in 1943." We never hear that he went to work FOR Monsato? How/when did he do so? What job did he hold?
    • The victim of some reorganization I did with the article. I added the info abut when he started at Monsanto, and what he did there.
  • "After the dispute with Yale over his forced retirement and the rights to his invention of electrospray ionization, Fenn moved to Richmond, Virginia to..." First we hear of this dispute... suggest "a dispute" instead of "the dispute"..
    • Agreed, and changed.

I've put the article on hold for seven days to allow folks to address the issues I've brought up. Feel free to contact me on my talk page, or here with any concerns, and let me know one of those places when the issues have been addressed. If I may suggest that you strike out, check mark, or otherwise mark the items I've detailed, that will make it possible for me to see what's been addressed, and you can keep track of what's been done and what still needs to be worked on. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:41, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I appreciate your time. I believe i have addressed everything that has been raised here. I'd also like to thank you for your copyedits and other changes. Let me know if there is anything else that needs to be done, or if there is a problem with how these issues were addressed. Canada Hky (talk) 15:39, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Looks good! Passing now. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Move?

I think that this article should be moved to John Fenn (scientist). I can't remember the MOS recommending using infamous middle names as disambiguation between people known by the same name. Also, the sources seem to use 'John Fenn' or 'John B. Fenn' often, but 'John Bennett Fenn' very rarely. Thoughts? --Eisfbnore ^talk 14:06, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

No objection to a move, I would suggest John Fenn (chemist), though. Canada Hky (talk) 17:53, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

The usual format appears to be to include a middle name or initial when available. It helps search and navigation. The most high profile examples are probably the entries for George Bush. E.g. we have George H. W. Bush, 41st President and George W. Bush, 43rd President, amongst others. Here, we have lots of other John Fenns who have no middle name. I'd suggest John B. Fenn as the most consistent, and avoids arbitrary judgement calls on what to put as a suffix. Ephebi (talk) 11:44, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I think that John B. Fenn is more appropriate. He published under that name and that is how he is listed in his Nobel Prize autobiography. --Kkmurray (talk) 13:46, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Personal opinion, not based on policy or anything like that: I've always found middle initial to be an annoying disambiguator - how likely am I to know that about someone when I am typing a name into the search box? If it autofills with (chemist) as an option, or if it is one of the hits on google, I'll know I am on the right track. Canada Hky (talk) 23:43, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

That's why we have disambiguation pages. WP:NCP guides us to use the most commonly-quoted form of the name. It would need a lot of sifting to precisely establish that preferred form, but doing a quick Google search for *Fenn and "Nobel" gives us 112,000 hits for John B Fenn, and 26,000 for each of John Bennett Fenn and John Fenn, which I think is clear enough. Also note he could be called a lot of things other than Chemist. Ephebi (talk) 10:28, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

He could be called a lot of things besides "chemist", but for someone with a bachelor's degree in chemistry, a Ph.D. in chemistry, who served as a chemistry professor for the majority of his career, and won the Nobel Prize in chemistry - its a fairly logical title. Disambiguation pages are nice, but it is much better to get someone to the correct article in the first place. Canada Hky (talk) 17:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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I have just modified 4 external links on John Fenn (chemist). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120925005846/http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2002/oct/21/nobel-winner-fenn-still-going-strong/ to http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2002/oct/21/nobel-winner-fenn-still-going-strong/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101202120233/http://yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2005_05/l_v.html to http://www.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2005_05/l_v.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120925010037/http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2002/oct/21/chemistry-nobel-prize-winners-departure-from-yale/ to http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2002/oct/21/chemistry-nobel-prize-winners-departure-from-yale/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110720173104/http://yalemedicine.yale.edu/ym_wi03/faces.html to http://yalemedicine.yale.edu/ym_wi03/faces.html

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External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110821023321/http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2005/feb/14/fomer-prof-loses-ruling-over-patent/ to http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2005/feb/14/fomer-prof-loses-ruling-over-patent/

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Requested move 14 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:21, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

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John Fenn (chemist) → John B. Fenn – WP:NATURALDIS and WP:COMMONNAME. Google has nearly 15.9k results for "John Fenn" Chemist and 15.5k results for "John B. Fenn" chemist. Furthermore, "John B. Fenn" is commonly used by prominent scientific, academic, and media organizations, including:

• The Nobel Prize website [1]
• Encyclopedia Britannica [2]
• The New York Times 2010 obituary: "John B. Fenn, Nobel Winner Who Studied Large Molecules, Dies at 93"
• Virginia Commonwealth University, Fenn's former employer, in the John B. Fenn Annual Lecture
• Yale University in its obituary In Memoriam: John B. Fenn
• The National Academy of Sciences [3]
• Also, in his scholarly papers, Fenn was often credited with his middle initial [4]. Arbor to SJ (talk) 07:15, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. He uses John B. Fenn on his scientific papers, and the vast majority of news articles refer to him as John B. Fenn. Momo824 (talk) 12:07, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.