Talk:John Erskine, Earl of Mar (1675–1732)

Bobbin not Bobbing

Can't find references I think it is bobbin not bobbing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.163.48 (talk) 19:48, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

--2602:306:8382:9EA0:21E:C2FF:FEA6:1579 (talk) 22:50, 28 September 2015 (UTC)== John Campbell ==

Mar's opponent at Sheriffmuir was John Campbell, the second Duke of Argyll, not his brother, Archbald. Rcpaterson 02:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

22nd Earl? I don't think so. The thing is, the accepted numbering of a peerage is taken from the creation which the current peer holds. Where the title had been forfeited and re-issued to others does not count. It is from the first holder of the latest creation that you commence the count. David Lauder 20:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

And why is he also known as "11th Earl of Mar"? Edward Waverley 15:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Some sources number from the 1st Lord Erskine, Robert (who died in 1453) See the Earl of Mar page for a full listing. Swanny18 (talk) 19:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

is bobbin also robert de lasalle.

Numbering problem

• The article title is "John Erskine, 22nd Earl of Mar"
• The lead begins "John Erskine, 23rd and de jure 6th Earl of Mar" and goes on to say
• he "was the eldest son of the 22nd Earl of Mar...by modern reckoning he was 23rd Earl of Mar"
• Charles Erskine, 21st Earl of Mar is apparently his father.
• Earl of Mar goes with him being the 23rd Earl.

The changes to the lead were made by an anon IP in Dec 09 to agree with the last named, but the current wording is clearly ridiculous - have amended it to previous version. Ben MacDui 18:14, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

And his biography on the ODNB is: Christoph v. Ehrenstein, ‘Erskine, John, styled twenty-second or sixth earl of Mar and Jacobite duke of Mar (bap. 1675, d. 1732)’, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, 2004; online edn, Jan 2008. PurpleHz (talk) 21:23, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

It is confusing, but Burkes (and Debretts) list him as the 23rd and 6th earl, according to the creations of the title; the ODNB may have it wrong. See the Earl of Mar page for an explanation. Swanny18 (talk) 19:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Moved

Following the discussion here, I've moved this page so that the subject is disambiguated by date. This is far less confusing than by succession number. Swanny18 (talk) 19:29, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Off topic segment - Jacobite Era Templarism and the House of Mar

I have just removed this fro the article. There was no obvious connection with the subject. It is more likely to be part of an article on House of Mar 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Newer editors may not realise that this text is accessible in the article history, and may be migrated with attribution to any appropriate article 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:33, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Off Topic segment - Ramsay, Templarism, and the Jacobite Ideology

This is a segment off on a frolic of its own. It needs either a total radical précis or complete removal 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Completely agree, with no hesitation. Simply remove the entire section. There may be a case for a single sentence, almost certainly no more, linking Mar (only) directly to Templarism. Feline Hymnic (talk) 15:29, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be any push back against pruning this section. So in a couple of days I will prune it severely (or perhaps even eliminate it). Feline Hymnic (talk) 16:55, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Off topic segment - House of Mar

This has no direct connection to the subject, and needs serious cutting, potentially removal 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:12, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

As a complete outside to the topic, I agree that the section "House of Mar" looks inappropriate to be within the article itself. But it probably has content that should usefully be kept somewhere. Perhaps this section might be considered for merger with the article Earl of Mar, and the first sentence already has a wikilink to there (albeit from under the redirected name of "Mormaerdom of Mar").

Might those who have some better understanding of Scottish history consider setting abut such a merger?

Feline Hymnic (talk) 19:15, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

@Feline Hymnic Even if temporarily excised from this article the text remains in the history, and is available to attributed migration to any agreed other article, including one yet to be written. Attribution is essential to preserve the integrity of the history, as we old hands know and new editors learn.

I'm afraid I am not the expert you seek. I noticed this article because it appears on my watch list and because it is having a substantial effort put in by one editor, ploughing a deep, productive, and long furrow 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:20, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Feline Hymnic and Nick Moyes and Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^{Talk to me} for lending your editing skills! KMarrs1722 (talk) 22:29, 15 August 2024 (UTC)