Talk:John Varty

Neutrality

If we check the history of the page, it presented many facts, and evidences of claiming some of his documentary as "frauds" and even information regarding some of his lawsuit with a real tiger conservation project, "Save China's Tigers". This article seems to be extremely bias towards John Varty, and many factual information which does not point to his favors have been "purged" by a user called Sunnette, who happens to be the name of a friend of John Varty in real life. I think this article has to be more factual and less one-sided in order for it to be more credible. It seems that almost none of the text on the page has a cited source. If anyone has question as to why i know so much, this is because i have been to Londolozi 7 times.

LeoGard (talk) 16:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Whenever I add information about John Varty, User:China's Tiger purge it. Pictures of John Varty, his autobiography, his movie Tiger Man of Africa showing on National Geographic at the moment and his view on tiger subspecies, are relevant. I've added references. He is the owner of Tiger Canyons, the co-owner of Londolozi Game Reserve and he made many documentaries. These are facts.

Tigeralert (talk) 08:41, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

My edits have been removed again. I regularly go to Londolozi and to Tiger Canyons to take pictures

Tigeralert (talk) 07:15, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

If a dispute between business partners in 2004 was taken to court ruling, it can be added with a citation to the said court ruling. Conservation is an emotive topic in which experts often disagree and far beyond the scope of this article. Please stick to facts. Wiki guidelines around iving people apply to all. Bloggermelive (talk) 16:35, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Article stubbed and protected

After seeing a request on the BLP noticeboard, I reviewed the history of this article and saw loads of negative unsourced or poorly sourced content, and an edit war. So I stubbed the article to remove the unsoruced material, and protected the page to stop the edit war.

Hopefully, the request for help on the BLP noticeboard with attract some additional editors who are experienced with writing about living people. When that happens, and well sourced references are found, then an article rewrite can begin. FloNight♥♥♥♥ 14:39, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

This page should not be speedy deleted because...

This page should not be speedy deleted because...

• John is the subject of several news stories by national newspapers: Varty dispute Google found approximately 15 articles on news24 and 3 on Iol.co.za. There could also be a number of articles that are not online because News24 has not digitized all their archives. (Many of their readers still prefer hardcopy).
• The Discovery Channel has John's biography on their website [1]
• His autobiography is marked as "bestselling" by the nation's largest online book store. His brother also published an autobiography detailing the history of Londolozi and another historic account.
• His wife (Gillian Van Houten) is a former TV news anchor. They have a daughter named Savannah.
• The controversies surrounding the tiger rewilding program was exposed on national television by Carte Blanche (TV series). transcript.
• He created several documentaries that were widely distributed: Living with tigers Shingalana Summary of 'Jamu' by the NY Times. 'Swift and silent' won an American Cable TV award in 1993 or 1992.
• The article is older than 3 years, so the deletion need not be 'speedy'.

--Nic Roets (talk) 22:20, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

John Varty has won many top documentary honors such as the New York Gold Award, the Film Festival of Montana Best Independent Program and American Cable TV's Ace Award. Major international customers include Walt Disney, The Discovery Channel, Time Life, Reader's Digest and Turner Original Programs (TOP).

Documentaries: Tiger Man of Africa; Living with Tigers; Shingalana; Ambush in Paradise; Troubled Waters; Swift and Silent; The Super Predators; Defining Moments; Super Hunts Super Hunters; Survival on the Savannah; Wet and Wild; The Tracker; Sense and Scentability; Horn and Claw; Londolozi's Africa; Savannah Cats; Hyaena the Great Opportunist; Cycle of the Seasons; Brothers in Arms; The Mating Game; he Silent Hunter; River Dinosaur; Savage Instinct; Perfect Mothers; Perfect Predators; A Secret Life; Jamu the Orphaned Leopard; Return of the Kings; The Brotherhood

Tigeralert (talk) 13:29, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

John Varty

Dear all, Please do research more about John Varty... i was a huge fan of him too, i got into the field of conservation because of this man, and his documentary called "Living with Tigers". But i was informed by authorities, which due to political reasons, i cannot name. But these people are people with high positions in the conservation world. What jv is doing is not conservation. JV has one aim, and that is money. His plan is simple, to actually earn money from "eco-tourism" by putting some trash tigers in Africa. These tigers are not purebred, they do not have any genetic value, these are tigers with mixed ancestory, we do not know what subspecies they are and these tigers are available in every single zoos out there... There are over 200 thousand captive unpure tigers in the world today, in circuses, in zoos, in safaries and everywhere else. In South Korea, there is a safari which allows their tigers and lions to roam freely and to hunt on their own. Would you pay the safari money and encourage them to breed these semi-wild tigers? Harbin Zoo in China is doing the same, so is this conservation?

Do you know that because of JV, India is losing over $2million per year on ecotourism, because many stop visiting india to see their tigers, but go to SA to see JV's tigers(with no gentically value). Do you know that JV uses those money not for conservation, but bought new property and new houses? How is this conservation? putting a bunch of animals in a fenced off "garden" and earning money when tourists visit the garden... This is false conservation.

Guys, you do know that the Genetic difference between Tiger Subspecies is much more than Lion subspecies and leopard subspecies right? HUMANS DID NOT CREATE TIGER SUBSPECIES. Different tiger subspecies have evolved and adapted to different ...environments for tens/hundreds of thousands of years and are genetically different. You guys do realise that JV has no scientific support behind him, and has came out with his own theory on Tiger subspecies..right? You can email Andrew Kitchener, i have his email, he himself admitted that it was his mistake to classify tiger subspecies based on geography distribution. Truth is that, the most recent DNA studies has shown that there are 8 tiger subspecies, which are GENETICALLY VERY DIFFERENT. The Caspian Tiger is now part of the Siberian Tiger, while other tiger subspecies are genetically different enough to form up 7 other subspecies.

The only reason why i "liked" this group is to reply to you people. I agree with all the experts and conservationists group in the world today, that this project is a fraud. It is a fraud.

About subspecies purity, that is where you are wrong. I major in Wildlife management, and the basic thing we learn is about purity of a species. It is a totally wrong analogy if you bring in "racial groups", you must understand that different racial groups in Humans belong to the same subspecies, Homo Sapiens Sapiens. But Tiger subspecies have different genetic makeup, and are different subspecies.

Why is the purity of a species important? Well, then why does the studbook exist? Do you know that the Indian Government spends over 100 thousand US dollars keep their wild tigers pure? Do you know that PUREBRED tigers represent different culture, different nation and different tradition? Each tiger has its own unique characteristics, by combining them, good traits will be lost.

Furthermore, you lack understanding in the studbook. These tigers are not only unpure, but they might be inbred! Studbook allows the tracing of ancestory for purebred tigers in captivity, and if these tigers are not recorded in the studbook, there is a high probability that they are close relatives mating. Who gave birth to JV's "tigerboy"? Julie, sirred by Ron.

I understand your intention in saying that you rather see wild unpure tigers than no tigers. But what you said is flawed. Would you rather see a wild purebred tiger or unpure ones? As mentioned, hybrid tigers are EVERYWHERE! Zoos, circuses, the temple in thailand. Tigers in many so called Safaris are so wild and unpure, they are abundent! South Korea has over 25 wild unpure tigers in a safari, why don't you support that safari? Its called Everland, they have a good combination of kangaroos, Tigers, mixed-bred lions in a huge safari, and earned money from tourism, why not support that? They have a healthy population of unpure animals too, nice combination.

Furthermore genetic pollution causes purebred animals to die out in the long run if they are released into the wild and mated with pure animals. Genetic Defects are so SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN to be most serious in Unpure animals.

Do you know why JV cannot get purebred tigers? Because this is no conservation project, no studbook, be it SSP, EEP will send their purebred tigers to him.

Remember, Different tiger subspecies have evolved MILLIONS of years away from each other, causing the difference in genetic makeup. Do not play God and mix tiger subspecies, why not rewild Ligers then to see wild ligers? Seriously, Conservation is about saving an animal in its PURE state.

The florida panther case is unique, because purebred Cougars from other places are released there due to inbreeding, however it is a controlled breeding program where genetic pollution is kept to a minimum, while in this case, the tigers are of MIXED ancestory, not just from 2 subspecies, but a combination of unknown ancestory.

Last but not least, i want to repeat and say that Humans are not God, we should should not try and put something unnatural into the wild, if we want good combinations, why not rewild Ligers and Grizzly/polar hybrid bears?

This is a money making venture, where the main aim is tourism by people who are not aware about the truth behind this "project".

I'll just like to say that it is not difficult, especially in South Africa to get a bunch of animals to start a reserve yourself, as long as you have the financial capacity. I can start by creating a reserve and rear cougars(mixed bred, they are everywhere, big cat rescue wants people to adopt them)and then i call it conservation, and the world can come to my safari and play with my cougars and pay me. This is jv's plan, it is a money making venture.

He also breeds white tiger, do you know the truth about White Tigers? White Tigers are inbred animals, and unhealthy, and can only produced through incess. Here is the source: http://bigcatrescue.org/abuse-issues/issues/white-tigers/

JV is a fraud, here is the source: http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20030901/005990.html

So please stop trusting him anymore, i know, its hard to believe someone talking to you through the net. But trust me, JV is not as simple as you think. You know what he did to a pregnant leopardess which walked near his property in Londolozi? He shot it, he is a hunter.

If you have anything you want to clarify, please feel free to ask.

The page right now is too bias, like an advertisement, this does not meet wikipedia's standard. Wikipedia's page should be fair and have both sides of the argument. LesnarMMA (talk) Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LesnarMMA (talk • contribs) 03:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

(a) Please don't mess up the formatting ! (b) Note that the article does not call Tiger Canyons a conservation project ! (c) $2 million is a tiny amount of money. I'm sure there are zoos that earn more money from their tiger exhibitions. Do you want to close all the zoos too ?! (d) It's a living person. Any criticism should be properly sourced. Fox News would not have covered him recently if he was as evil as you are making him out to be ! -- Nic Roets (talk) 00:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

@Nroets, that is very wrong. Fox News is known to be filled with flaws and loopholes, please feel free to do research on it. How are you related to JV? Why are you helping him? Read everything i've posted before doing anything. Do not edit anymore, let this be a balance page. I will edit the formatting myself. $2million is not a tiny amount, not in India at least, that amount can be used to employ over hundreds of park rangers to save purebred wild bengal tigers. The sources are from carte blanc, a famous South Africa media, known for exposing frauds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LesnarMMA (talk • contribs) 07:46, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Fox News and National Geographic both continue to work with him. Carte Blanche is also a credible program (For example I worked with them in 2000/2001 to expose security security holes in the Internet banking site of ABSA Bank), but, if they interview you, it does not make you a fraudster (ABSA Bank is still a billion dollar bank with millions of customers). It's important to view the video and / or read the transcripts and see exactly what the findings are. -- Nic Roets (talk) 11:56, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Nic Roets, Please do understand that truth about what he is doing. You can contact the International IUCN Cat Specialist group, you can contact the WWF, you can contact that large conservation organisations out there and ask them about John Varty. What he is doing is not conservation, he is earning money from tourism. He is drawing away money from India, Siberia and China, the real places where such money is needed to protect true wild tigers. Please, stop helping him... By helping him, you are causing harm to wild purebred tigers in Asia.

LesnarMMA (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:49, 18 August 2011 (UTC).

I'll concede that the project has doubtful conservation value. But all we can do is inform people. Then tourists and donors must make up their own mind which projects to support.

You must also realize that you are helping him by calling him "controversial" [2]. People will want to see his documentaries and if they are passing through the Karoo, they will want to visit Tiger Canyons to see if the tigers can now hunt for themselves. -- Nic Roets (talk) 19:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree that calling him "controversial" may in itself be biased. Although many articles on him use the word "controversial", perhaps it is better to exclusively identify why he is considered controversial in the introductory paragraph. As far as I can tell, his views on tiger subspecies (which disagree with most modern theories) are one reason for his being considered as controversial. Naturally, his "Tiger Canyons" project, which has been heavily criticized by experts, is another reason for controversy (which is already in the intro paragraph, but not well cited).

Dremagon (talk) 00:11, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think his views on the tiger subspecies is that well know and is not the source of the controversy. The controversy comes from the fact that his major motivation is making money (ref=nomad). -- Nic Roets (talk) 09:01, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 July 2013

To allow for fairness and balanced information on John Varty's wild cats projects in S.A. do consider to remove the gossip on John Varty's projects on this Wikipedia site when verifiable reliable sources can't be found to back up this mainly negative and slandering stories that are now dominating. Hereby also the request to consider adding the link to John Varty's website: the page in which he explains what is happening now and why. http://www.jvbigcats.co.za/volunteers.htm -- Drs Telly Hendon (talk) 12:14, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

You're request is far too vague for me to remove anything. I'm wary of reigniting an old edit war.

But there is enough material to update the article a bit. -- Nic Roets (talk) 12:50, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Kia South Africa TV advertisement

Kia South Africa TV advertisement — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nroets (talk • contribs) 22:04, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

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