Talk:History of the Jews in Japan

Minor cleanups of info as of May 2013

Removed the name of Rabbi Robert Yaros from the Chabad section. No such person is associated with Chabad in Japan. Clarified the present day situation in the Jews and Judaism in modern Japan section regarding the two Chabad houses in Tokyo. Updated the Rabbis section. 210.170.108.196 (talk) 03:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Surprising errors

For an article that made it to Wikipedia's main page, this article reflected the original writer/s' poor grasp of the definitions of the differences between the meaning/s of Jew and Judaism (not always the same thing!) and the way these terms are conventionally used in the English language... I have tried to correct these serious errors. IZAK 04:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Fugu Plan

Shouldn't there be some prominent mention of the Fugu Plan here?

• Sure, go ahead. But why didn't you sign your comment with the four tildes ~~~~ ? IZAK 06:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

there isn't ja:フグ計画 yet in Japanese article. Can I include Jacob Schiff to Japanese article? --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 08:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

• I went ahead and added a paragraph re the Fugu Plan - I'm not that familiar with it though, and there are some significant differences between the present article and Fugu Plan (e.g. "the Jews were not helped in any large-scale or particularly official or organized way by the national government in Tokyo") so I'll leave it to others to do any more. Dryman 20:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

日本のユダヤ人

There is a ja:日本のユダヤ人 on Japanese article. Can we interlang? --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 08:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead and interlang --TBC 18:35, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Done. Tomer^talk 23:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Minor Comment

This article made it onto the main page? I created it but I'm not an expert on the subject. I just happened upon it when I was going through articles relating to religion and decided to create an article on it based upon what I found throughout such sources as the Jewish Encyclopedia. Oh well, I'll be working on Babylonian related articles now. --TBC 18:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Go figure

I didn't realize this article existed, I'll add it to the various Jews in ____ pages. Interested editors may also want to look at Antisemitism in Japan, which could use some help. --Goodoldpolonius2 06:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Moves

I don't know why this page has been moved in the last day or so without any discussion... but "Japanese Jews" is not an appropriate name for the subject matter. Many, if not most, Jews living in Japan today are simply living there temporarily, and are not "Japanese" by any definition of the word. That is, they are neither ethnically Japanese nor Japanese citizens, but merely ex-pats of another country living in Japan temporarily. This page really ought to be moved back to "History of the Jews in Japan" or something equivalent - "Jews in Japan" and "Japanese Jews" are not equivalent phrases, and the first is better for what we are describing. LordAmeth 07:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

You will also notice that the navigation template at the bottom of the page is one of "History of the Jews in Asia", not "Jews by country". If we want to maintain a standard and create a series of articles, we really need to change all of these back to "History of the Jews in X." I realize the argument isn't quite as compelling when compared to certain other ethnic groups, such as African Jews, Swiss Jews, or Kazakh Jews, but when it comes to the Far East in particular... the vast majority of Jews in the Far East (and likely in other countries as well) are not ethnically, nor by citizenship, of that country. LordAmeth 11:46, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Jews are about Jews who live in Japan, whether ethnically Jewish, ethnically Japanese, or something else. Japanese Jews encompasses them all. Given the fairly extreme ethnic homogeneity of Japan, this formulation might seem a little strange from a Japanese viewpoint, but it's entirely consistent with Jewish history. Jews have remained a distinctive ethnic group in almost every country in which they have lived. The phrases "German Jews", "Russian Jews", "Swiss Jews", "Algerian Jews", "Persian Jews" do not inply that the Jews of those countries are ethnically German, Russian, etc. Jayjg ^(talk) 14:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Um... I humbly beg to differ. The term "Japanese Jews" implies a Japanese ethnicity or citizenship just as much as "Japanese doctors" or "Japanese soldiers" or "Japanese-Americans" for that matter. That's my take on it, and I say that as a Jew, not as a Japanese (which, after all, I'm not). LordAmeth 01:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Japanese Jews → Jews and Judaism in Japan — Many, if not most, Jews living in Japan today are simply living there temporarily, and are not "Japanese" by any definition of the word. That is, they are neither ethnically Japanese nor Japanese citizens, but merely ex-pats of another country living in Japan temporarily. This page really ought to be moved back to "History of the Jews in Japan" or something equivalent - "Jews in Japan" and "Japanese Jews" are not equivalent phrases, and the first is better for what we are describing. —LordAmeth 16:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support move; true "Japanese Jews" are clearly a subset of the topic of Jews and Judaism in Japan, but not the other way around. The move is especially relevant considering the actual content of the article. --Cheers, Komdori 01:04, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose Should be retitled History of the Jews in Japan to be more accurate. -SpeechFreedom 08:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
• Support — As the article says, there's always been only a small number of Jewish people in Japan, mostly staying for a short period of time. Also, this article was at Jews and Judaism in Japan for the longest time, until people started moving it. A move to History of the Jews in Japan is acceptable as well.--Endroit 13:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
• support LordAmeth makes good points. Chris 22:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

The discussion I initiated above yielded no results, and so now I turn this over to a more formal poll. I am open to a number of alternate options, such as History of the Jews in Japan, as well. LordAmeth 16:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from Japanese Jews to Jews and Judaism in Japan as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 16:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Eidelberg

Eidelberg's book is very weak, and should not be considered a reliable source here. He bases his historical connections on some very vague assertions of what are really linguistic false cognates. He was trained in neither of those areas. MSJapan 21:31, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I was not the one who applied that reference, but I can see its usefulness here. It is a perfect example of the kinds of evidence and logic used by some to argue the minority opinion of some kind of connection between the Jewish and Japanese people. Though it is almost assuredly completely untrue, and extremely poor scholarship, it is nevertheless interesting and notable that there are people out there who believe in this sort of common origin and write about it. LordAmeth 13:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Hata clan?

Makuya article has some of it. Not all Jewish migration occurred via Europe PBS indicated that Chinese Jews went to Japan via Korea between the 3rd to 7th century. -Sparky 04:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd be curious to learn more about this documentary. More to the point, if you could properly cite the information added to the article, it'd be great. Todah rabah. LordAmeth 23:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Addition to anti-semetism

I added a mention of the fact that racist images sometimes appear in anime due to the Japanese not seeing a problem. The basis for this can be found in the censorship of anime article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.118.1 (talk) 20:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Mokoya Jews

The Mokoya Jews should be mentioned in this article. There is a scene featuring them in the documentary film Jewish Soul Music: The Art of Giora Feidman (dir. Uri Barbash, 1980), about the klezmer clarinetist Giora Feidman. Badagnani (talk) 03:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Good point. There really should be a section discussing the various Shinshūkyō which draw upon elements of the Jewish faith and claim connection to the Jewish people. There's already a fair bit at the Shinshūkyō article, and a separate article on the Makuya sect to which you refer. If you wanted to add from those articles, or from your own sources, a section here about Shinshukyo and their connections to Judaism, it'd be great. LordAmeth (talk) 04:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You know about them? No wonder I couldn't find any sources except one, I was spelling it wrong. Hope we can work together to do this. I wasn't sure if they were "real" Jews or just Japanese who identify strongly with Israel, love to sing in Hebrew and give their kids Jewish names, sing in Hebrew, etc.--i.e. enthusiasts for the culture. Badagnani (talk) 04:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hm. Yeah. Check out the Makuya article - I've put pretty much all I know about them (read: not much) into that. As far as I know, they are Japanese who claim to be ethnically related to the Jewish people, though they are most likely not if you don't mind my saying so. It has to do with a theory of various elements of the ancient Japanese clans being descended from the Lost Tribes, though that's a whole other can of worms really. To get back to the point - they are Zionists and Christians who believe in following some semblance of the original Christianity - that is, they worship Jesus and such, but reject all the dogma and such created by the Church since its establishment, relating instead more closely to the customs and laws of the Jewish people. I don't recall if I found much about them in any particular secondary source - I did some very basic superficial research on the sect years ago - but pretty much the primary source that I know of to find out anything about them is simply to go to their website. Just read with caution and don't believe everything you read :). Good luck; sorry I can't be of more help. I am truly drowning in homework these days. LordAmeth (talk) 14:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Antisemitism in Japan vis-à-vis this article

I would submit that this article overemphasizes antisemitism in Japan, not only to the detriment of article, but in such a way as to imply, by sheer "volume", that the history of the Jew[i]s[sh experience] in Japan has been overwhelmingly colored by antisemitism...something which no serious student of either Japanese or Jewish history can condone. While it is certain that classical antisemitism has reared its ugly head even in Japan, most of Japanese antisemitism is more "para-antisemitism" than it actual antisemitism. I would like to propose that the antisemitism section[s] of this article be split off into the antisemitism in Japan article, where the mild nature of said antisemitism can be explored in more detail, and that an only an appropriately brief mention be made within this article, along with a link to the aforementioned antisemitism in Japan article. The long list of antisemitism and para-antisemitism in this article gives undue weight to what is, in fact, a relative side-note in Japanese-Jewish history. 68.112.202.189 (talk) 09:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the key thing is more that the antisemitism section needs to be rewritten and reorganized. It's more or less just a list of scattered, mostly unrelated, incidents and examples. If consolidated into a shorter paragraph, I think it could turn out reading better, and seeming less dominating. LordAmeth (talk) 11:27, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Removed from article

I've removed the following from the article as being unnecessarily detailed, and comprising more a list of individual publications than a discussion of the phenomenon. As I feel bad to delete it entirely, it being presumably accurate, and not entirely useless information, I'm moving it here:

In 1973, a book named "ノストラダムスの大予言" (Nostradamus no daiyogen; "The Great Prophecy of Nostradamus") became one of the best sellers. This book is based on The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. The author, Goto Ben (五島勉), is from a traditional Russian Orthodox family.

In 1979, a book named "日本人に謝りたい あるユダヤ人の懺悔" (Nihonjin ni ayamaritai - Aru yudayajin no zange; "I'd like to apologize to the Japanese - A Jewish elder's confession") was published. The author of this book, モルデカイ・モーゼ (Mordecai Mose), called himself a rabbi, but actually that was a pseudonym of the self-styled translator of this book, Kubota Masao (久保田政男). In this book, Kubota spread the rumor that Enola Gay means "Kill the Emperor" in Yiddish. This rumor is groundless, but anti-Semites in Japan still support it.

In 1984, a book named "世界を動かすユダヤ・パワーの秘密" (Sekai wo ugokasu yudaya power no himitsu; "Secrets of the Jewish power which controls the world") was published. This book is based on Jewish conspiracy theory. The author, Saito Eizaburo (斉藤栄三郎), was a member of the House of Councillors. 　　

In 1986, a book named "ユダヤが解ると世界が見えてくる" (Yudaya ga wakaruto sekai ga mietekuru; "To watch Jews is to see the world clearly") became one of Japan's best sellers. This book is also based on The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, and the author, Uno Masami (宇野正美), still insists that the Ashkenazim are "fake Jews", and that the Zionists are controlling the world. According to him, the Japanese are the descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, so Japanese will defeat "fake Jews" someday, he says.

In 1986, a book named "これからの１０年間　ユダヤ・プロトコール超裏読み術―あなたに起こるショッキングな現実" (Korekara no 10 nenkan: Yudaya protocol cho urayomi jutu - Anata ni okoru shocking na genjitsu; "The forthcoming 10 years: How to read Jewish protocol inside out - Shocking realities that happen to you") also became one of Japan's best sellers. The author, Yajima Kinji (矢島鈞次), was an economist, and a professor at Aoyama Gakuin University.

In 1987, a magazine named "歴史読本" (Rekishi dokuhon; "The history magazine") featured articles titled "世界、謎のユダヤ" (Sekai, nazo no yudaya; "The world, mysterious Jews"), and insisted that the Watergate scandal and the Lockheed scandal were Jewish conspiracies. It is reported that Tanaka Kakuei (田中角栄) said "Yudaya ni yarareta, yudaya ni ki wo tsukero (I've been taken in by Jews, be wary of Jews)", when he was released on bail.

In 1995, a magazine named Marco Polo (マルコポーロ) carried a Holocaust denial article by a doctor, Nishioka Masanori (西岡昌紀). The Simon Wiesenthal Center protested against this article, so the publisher apologized deeply, and discontinued the magazine.

Aum Shinrikyo (オウム真理教), a controversial Buddhist religious group, also distributed conspiracy theories to attract the Japanese readers as part of their recruitment efforts in 1992-1995. Some argue that Goto Ben's books had reportedly had influences on Aum Shinrikyo publications of this time. It is reported that Murai Hideo (村井秀夫), one of the leaders of Aum Shinrikyo, uttered "Yudaya ni yarareta (Jews got me)." when he was stabbed to death. Later Aum abandoned the populist writings and changed their name to Aleph, a first letter of Hebrew alphabet.

Nowadays, Ota Ryu (太田龍), an ex-Trotskyist, is one of the leading propagandists for Jewish conspiracy theory. He has translated the books of Eustace Mullins into Japanese.

LordAmeth (talk) 03:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Israeli embassy

I deleted the sentence “The Israeli Embassy and its staff is based in Tokyo.” [1] Presumably it's true that many Israeli diplomats posted to Tokyo are Jewish, and likely also several diplomats from other countries such as the USA and Canada, but so what? Foreign diplomats in Japan who happen to be Jewish are not part of the "History of the Jews in Japan". Also I put a refimprove box on that section (Jews and Judaism in modern Japan) because it has many statements needing citation. Mathew5000 (talk) 07:46, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Antisemitic?

Is it anti-Semitic to mention that the Jewish Encyclopaedia states in articles published between 1901 and 1905 that only a tiny percentage of Jews are Semitic? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.144.96.123 (talk) 18:24, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:08, 5 June 2020 (UTC)