Talk:Justice and Construction Party

Party of the Brotherhood

Currently we have two articles on Islamist parties in Libya with links to the Muslim Brotherhood. National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development, whose foundation was announced in November 2011, and which is reportedly led by Ali al-Sallabi, and Justice and Development Party (Libya), which was officially founded on 3 March 2012 and which is led by Mohamed Sowan. Could it be that both are in fact one and the same party? Particularly given that the source from November 2011 pointed out that "National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development" was a "provisional name". For me, this indicates the possibility that they changed the (complicated) name to a more simple one before the official foundation took place. Can someone confirm or falsify this, and answer at Talk:National Gathering for Freedom, Justice and Development, please? Thank you. --RJFF (talk) 20:13, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Title: Development or Construction?

Many reliable news sources recently use "Construction" and not "Development" (just compare Google news hits for "Justice and Construction Party" + libya — (hits for "Justice and Development Party" + Libya often refer to the Turkish AKP which inspires and supports the Libyan Islamists)), and "construction" seems to be the more exact translation of bina, than "development" (which would preferrably be tanmiyah — according to the dictionary, I don't speak Arabic, so sorry if I'm wrong). Therefore I'd support moving to Justice and Construction Party. --RJFF (talk) 12:43, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Apparently WP:Recentism. That is not a barometre ofencyclopaedic truth. What does the official site claim? if any.Lihaas (talk) 13:17, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Haven't you read my post? The relevant word in the official name (bina) translates to "construction" and not to "development". There is no official site or name in English. Where the party uses Latin script (facebook), they call themselves ABParty (referring to Arabic adalah and bina). Still, WP:COMMON applies, and referring to recentism is ridiculous regarding a party that has only been founded a few months ago. Every information about it is recent. By the way, Lihaas, "no consensus" alone is not a valid argument. If you don't have a contentual objection, reverting just because consensus hasn't been established expressly and officially is excessive formalism on the border to disruption. "Silent consensus" can exist. As long as no one objects (and you say "either way is fine", so you don't actually object, you just insist on formal discussion, without having a contentual objection), there is consensus. --RJFF (talk) 14:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 15:43, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

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Justice and Development Party (Libya) → Justice and Construction Party – This is by far the common name for the party - Google News has 2,590 for Justice and Construction compared to just 419 for Justice & Development. Perhaps more importantly, Libyan sources like the Tripoli Post and Libya Herald use J&C. Additionally, from my limited knowledge of Arabic, I believe "البناء" (al-bina'a) is translated as "construction" or "building", not development. Number 57 13:21, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Quickly move for reasons stated in section Title: Development or Construction? above. Lihaas' objection against the move is invalid as he only insists on formal discussion without disputing the merit of the move. WP:WWIN#Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy! --RJFF (talk) 14:34, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
• Close As consensus has long been established through editing (with four individual users moving the article to the proposed target, each citing valid policy, and no user objecting - Lihaas hasn't argued against the new title, but only reverted for formalistic reasons), I propose to close this discussion as unnecessary bureaucracy. --RJFF (talk) 15:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

We dont need a RM because we have a discussion. If people partake in DISCUSSIOn then we get consensus. Move waring i snot consensus.

And IDONTLIKEIT and WP:WRONGVERSION doesnt mean we go to one version then discuss.Lihaas (talk) 16:22, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't see you discussing. You said in your edit summary that you don't prefer the one title over the other. On the other hand, four users argued for the proposed title, partly in their edit summaries, partly on this talk page. This already is unanimous consensus (unless you start now naming arguments for the former title). Your insistence on empty formalism isn't improving the article. --RJFF (talk) 16:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

• Move to Justice and Construction Party. Ghits firmly establish WP:COMMONNAME, and the disambiguator appears not to be necessary. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:35, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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