Talk:Kamala Harris 2024 presidential campaign/Archive 1

Archive 1

Remove wiki page

Although President Biden has endorsed Kamala Harris for the Democratic nomination, that doesn't mean she's officially running. I request that this Wiki page be deleted until an official announcement from the Vice President. Thelittlepoliticalboy (talk) 18:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

There is about a 0% chance she wont run after her president endorsed her Lukt64 (talk) 18:46, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

This is currently a draft page so it's not technically official yet. DogsRNice (talk) 19:00, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) WeatherWriter has moved it to the Draft space for now, so we won't be deleting this page for the moment. Currently there is a discussion at Talk:Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign about the whole situation. --Super Goku V (talk) 19:01, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

@JD John M. Turner: Did something change? I don't see a formal announcement at the moment. --Super Goku V (talk) 19:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

 Resolved Just for a summary: BD2412 started a draft of the article, a redirect was made to another article, BD2412 published the draft when Biden withdrew and endorsed Harris, this discussion was started, WeatherWriter send it back to the draft to wait for an official announcement, then this got moved back to mainspace too early, an AfD was started, Harris officially announces her campaign, and the AfD was withdrawn. Hopefully this satisfies everyone. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

It should never have been moved back to draft once published. We need not stand on formalism to report the obvious. There is no way Biden would have endorsed Harris if there was any chance she was not running. BD2412 T 20:47, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I would say that is a fair assessment, but at the same time it seems that the way things worked out avoided a lengthy AfD for the two to three hours between statements from Biden and Harris. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Nah, it 100% should have been moved to draftspace. Until the actual campaign announcement, the whole article was a ton of SYNTH and crystal violations. The title alone was technically also a violation of being fake and not true. I stand by the draft-space move, which is something several others agreed with. Honestly, BD2412, you should have been more careful about making the article in mainspace to begin with, given the massive SYNTH violation it was at the time of creation. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 21:39, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

What SYNTH violation? Everything in the article was cited, and the only deficiency asserted is the absence of a formal announcement by the candidate. It would have been trivially easy at the time, however, to find reliable sources reporting that Biden's endorsement indicated that Harris was running. The only reason we didn't end up needing to include these was that her announcement came so quickly on the heels of the AfD. BD2412 T 02:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Citation for fourth president from California

Trying to prevent WP:EW since this has been changed several times in the past few hours. Do we really need a citation for the note that she could be the "fourth president whose home state is California" (at the end of the lead)? The page List of presidents of the United States by home state does not list any citations, so I don't think one is necessary here. "; DROP TABLE Pages; (talk) 05:39, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

That list isn't a good example given it seems to be supported by just four sources. Outside that, KTVU might be a good enough source for this: "While California may be lacking in the quantity of presidential frontrunners, the Golden State has had some heavy hitters who would go on to be elected president. Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980 and in 1984. Richard Nixon won in 1968 and 1972. And going further back, Herbert Hoover won the election in 1928." --Super Goku V (talk) 06:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 July 2024

Change “When Biden and Harris won the general election, she became the first female vice president of the United States.” to “After Biden and Harris won the general election, she became the first female vice president of the United States upon her inauguration on January 20, 2021.”

As written, the sentence can imply that winning the general election is when the offices of president and vice president transfer to the new office holders. HidyHoTim (talk) 07:11, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Jamedeus (talk) 07:58, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Is this an endorsement page only?

So many editors add names on the endorsement list however what about the platform? Policies? Anything? Page is ripe for an afd. Bohbye (talk) 23:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

@Bohbye: "ripe for an afd"? That would obviously not go well for the editor nominating the article, although as things develop we may need a separate "endorsements" article, as we have for many such candidacies. BD2412 T 23:58, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Looks like another editor moved out all the endorsements which was a good idea. Bohbye (talk) 00:03, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Support fork. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 00:04, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

We already had one AfD today, don't need a second so soon hopefully.

In any case, this Campaign just started today in an unusual situation. We should wait for reliable sources to use for her policies. As far as I know, there isn't an official website outside of the Biden-Harris campaign. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:06, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Is there any reason to expect that the policies of the "Harris" campaign would be at all different from those of the "Biden/Harris" campaign? BD2412 T 02:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Politico: How Kamala Harris’ platform could differ from Joe Biden’s with examples in abortion rights, artificial intelligence, climate change, and student debt relief, among others. Leans CRYSTAL with the "how their views could differ" speculation, but does give examples where they have differed such as with the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement. --Super Goku V (talk) 06:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Obviously there's reason to expect it, although very little RSes yet. Obama/Biden had different policies to Biden/Harris, and it would be wild to expect Harris/??? to not have different policies too. Heck, Biden/Harris 2020 had different policies to Biden/Harris 2024. 185.62.159.164 (talk) 12:09, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Graph

Could we get a color key added to the polling graph? Ktkvtsh (talk) 14:49, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Related: new WikiProject

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Kamala Harris

--Another Believer _(Talk) 15:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Comma Issues

Under the "Platform" section, in the subsection "Israel–Hamas war," there is a comma error (second sentence). Said sentence has an incorrect comma before the coordinating conjunction "but." Coordinating conjunctions should have commas when connecting two independent clauses; however, this comma connects an independent and dependent clause. We should remove the comma.

Attached is the sentence: "She supported Israel's offensive against Hamas in the aftermath of its attack on Israel, but criticized it throughout the war because of the Gaza humanitarian crisis."

Additionally, this comma error also occurred underneath the "Polling" section.

Attached is the sentence: "In election polls, Harris has been shown to perform slightly better than Biden in the general election, but still trails Trump as of July 21, 2024." WafflesBaconAndPuppies (talk) 21:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

RFPP has been requested

Hi,

Just as a heads up, Requests for Page Protection has been requested for this article, here: [1]

Thanks, David O. Johnson (talk) 05:13, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Remove the protections please. It is unnecsessary and unhelpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.18.11.9 (talk) 10:55, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It was necessary due to the high levels of vandalism. David O. Johnson (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

If you want to, you can either suggest an edit here with the template or create an account and edit when you have the required permissions. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Typo

In the Background section, first sentence : "In October 2023, Harris refused to speculate on what would happen if the likely Democratic nominee for the 2024 presidential election, current President Joe Biden, were to drop out out of the race."

There is a double "out" at the end.

-- SwissTHX11384EB (talk) 23:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

It's fixed. Thanks. David O. Johnson (talk) 23:38, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding website link to infobox

I would like to add Kamala's 2024 website link to the infobox. It is being promoted as KamalaHarris.com. It currently redirects to an ActBlue fundraiser for Harris but it will likely become its own site soon. If you need a source to confirm that this is her website, below is a linked official Facebook post by Joe Biden promoting KamalaHarris.com.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=529889252948907&set=a.108973685040468

Thanks. ARandomShyGuy (talk) 15:32, 22 July 2024 (UTC) ARandomShyGuy (talk) 15:32, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

 Already done The site has already been added. Jamedeus (talk) 03:11, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 July 2024 (2)

So far on her Twitter/X Account, She has this listed as her campaign website. https://secure.actblue.com/donate/web-bfp-july21-2024 Dquack wolf 10:08, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: This is a PAC fundraising page, the official site launched shortly after the request was opened and has already been added to the page. Jamedeus (talk) 03:16, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 July 2024 (3)

Add Jen O’Malley Dillon to important people for this campaign.

References

--Timeshifter (talk) 21:12, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

The 2 Forbes authors are both subject matter experts (WP:FORBESCON) according to their Forbes bios and article lists. And both Harris and Walz have long supported full cannabis legalization according to the articles. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Tim Walz theme song and David Plouffe

Tim Walz’s walkout song has changed to “Small Town” by John Mellencamp, instead of “Born to Run” by Bruce Springsteen - https://x.com/tim_walz/status/1822481653467332881?s=46&t=PkCzkHaqGZT0VzU974f-4g

David Plouffe should be added to the list of Key People as a Senior Advisor - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/02/plouffe-joins-harris-campaign-as-senior-adviser-00172478 Thenoheart (talk) 20:25, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

I've added Plouffe as senior advisor in the infobox, though the Tim Walz info needs a better source. David O. Johnson (talk) 14:17, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Better sources:

- https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/tim-walz-visits-southern-california-for-first-time-as-kamala-harris-running-mate/3487559/

- https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-08-13/2024-election-tim-walz-afscme-convention

- https://azmirror.com/2024/08/09/harris-and-walz-draw-huge-crowd-in-arizona-promise-action-on-immigration-abortion/ 142.189.18.32 (talk) 18:10, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

It's updated. Thanks. David O. Johnson (talk) 18:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Minimum wage

I started a minimum wage section. Here is what I started with:

Harris supports raising the federal minimum wage.

References

--Timeshifter (talk) 21:36, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Unless this section is expanded from one sentence, I do not think that minimum wage warrants its own section distinct from the economy section. PrinceTortoise (talk) 07:15, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I added some more info:

Harris supports raising the federal minimum wage. Harris has not given a number for a federal minimum wage she supports, though she has praised states that have raised the rate to at least $15 per hour.

References

--Timeshifter (talk) 08:24, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for adding some more info. The section seems long enough now to be its own thing. PrinceTortoise (talk) 16:05, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 August 2024

Change:

"The campaign's communications strategy is overseen by Brian Fallon and Kirsten Allen, who is focused on Harris's public image."

To:

"The campaign's communications strategy is overseen by Brian Fallon, Ian Sams, Kristen Orthman, and Kirsten Allen, who is focused on Harris's public image."

Citation is here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/08/16/ian-sams-leaving-white-house-expected-join-harris-campaign/ Baseballman1876 (talk) 09:59, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done: I've added all of the names, except for Kristen Orthman, who I can't find in your linked article. Do you have a different source supporting their participation in the campaign? (mention: Baseballman1876) — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 12:20, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

I did a quick search and found that she is at least part of the campaign. NBC says she is in "a planning role that will coordinate across several departments" and Politico says she is "to serve as senior adviser for strategic planning." --Super Goku V (talk) 04:33, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Yep, those are the two articles I saw as well. She is an expert in press/communications so it’s pretty likely that’s what she will be doing with “strategic planning.” Baseballman1876 (talk) 03:31, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

She is an expert in press/communications so it’s pretty likely that’s what she will be doing... But do we have a confirmation from a source that it is what she is doing? Otherwise, we can only verify that she is with the campaign. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:13, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Endorsements

I suggest adding:

Many current and former Republicans have endorsed the Harris/Walz ticket, including current and former elected politicians and members of the first Trump administration. Most explain their support for Harris based on their belief that Harris and Walz can be trusted both to act in the interest of the country, rather than to further their own narrow self-interests, as well as to protect democracy at home and abroad. In contrast, these Republicans generally explain their opposition in terms of his chaotic temperament, overwhelming focus on himself, abandonment of conservative and democratic values, lack of respect for members of the military, repeated praise for leaders of authoritarian governments and denigration of leaders of democracies (including longtime NATO allies), as well as their concerns about Donald Trump's authoritarian tendencies and his repeated emphasis on personal loyalty to him, rather than to the country and its constitution. At the Democratic National Convention, former Republican Congressman, Adam Kinzinger explained that under Donald Trump "The Republican Party is no longer conservative. It has switched its allegiance. From the principles that gave it purpose, to a man whose only purpose is himself."

References: https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-republicans-endorsing-kamala-harris-kinzinger-grisham-duncan-1939178 https://time.com/7014257/adam-kinzinger-2024-dnc-speech-full-transcript/ Wilson9182 (talk) 18:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Blue Dog Coalition Caucus Leadership and Jon Tester

I suggest adding:

The three co-chairs of the Blue Dog Coalition caucus in the U.S. House of Representatives, comprised of Democrats Jared Golden, Mary Peltola, and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, all have stated that they do not intend to endorse Harris.

[2]https://bluedogcaucus-golden.house.gov/members

And that Jon Tester of Montana is the only incumbent Senator in the Democratic Party not to endorse Harris for President. Smobes (talk) 10:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

all have stated that they do not intend to endorse Harris. This is an outright false statement. "going to wait and see", and "weighing her decision" are not "do not intend to endorse". Also, Fox is not RS. Further, this is WP:SYNTH. You are taking three sources and combining them to make the claim: "The three co-chairs of the Blue Dog Coalition caucus...." O3000, Ret. (talk) 11:08, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

On the Jon Tester proposal, Newsweek is also not RS. And he stated this has nothing to do with national politics. O3000, Ret. (talk) 11:15, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

References

Last night's debate

It was a significant event with over 65 million viewers and with tense debate throughout it was a fierce event. The coverage only the biggest discussion on the news. It seems notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unit340 (talk • contribs) 20:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Is there a specific sentence or paragraph you wanted to request to include or just that the article should mention the debate in a section? --Super Goku V (talk) 07:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

References

Apostrophes: Harris' vs Harris's

It looks like this page is about 50-50 on each of these. I think most news sites are using Harris'. The wp:apostrophes seems to indicate either would be ok, but I think sticking with one or the other would be better. Seananony (talk) 18:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Seananony wp:apostrophe Seananony (talk) 18:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Seananony Sorry, I meant to link to apostrophe. Anyway, that page and the MOS page (possessives section) don't indicate whether one or the other is correct. Seananony (talk) 22:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Apparently, there is no correct answer: It was enough to see double, made worse by the fact that stylebooks, large news organizations and grammar geeks were all split or contradicted one another. “Anyone who tells you there are universal rules to how to add an apostrophe ending in S is either wrong or lying,” Jeffrey Barg, a grammar columnist, said. “You can’t be wrong as long as you’re consistent.” This is also covered at the article Apostrophe as referred to at WP:Apostrophe. So whatever we do, as long as we are consistent, then we are good. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

@Super Goku V I would agree consistency is what matters, at least within an article. So maybe determine which style appears more often on the page and change everything on the page to that style? Seananony (talk) 06:12, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

If you want to do that, then sure I am in support. -- Super Goku V (talk) 06:19, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

I'd support such a change, but I also fear that we would quickly get a mismatch of approaches with future edits unless we had documented somewhere that we have consensus to stay consistent to one spelling for this article. 144.51.12.131 (talk) 22:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Social media account

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/14/politics/fact-check-harris-campaign-social-media/index.html

Consider adding reliable source about the repeated misinformation put out by the social media campaign. 141.154.49.21 (talk) 22:50, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Where exactly could we fit that in? Since the KamalaHQ account is like an advertising account, would it go under the advertising section? Also, we would have to find some sources talking about the account itself (basically confirming it is her campaign's account) before we go into any controversy surrounding it. Thanks for bringing this up. ApteryxRainWing (talk) 11:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't Kamala's Indian heritage count as "Caucasian Ancestry"?

Does the page mean to say she would be the first president without European background? JohnIllinois1827 (talk) 18:41, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Indian ancestry does not necessarily mean Caucasian ancestry. As for does she have any Caucasian ancestry, who knows and who cares? Slave masters often slept with slaves and there is no such thing as a Caucasian race. O3000, Ret. (talk) 19:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

"Who knows and who cares?"

Clearly the page cares, as I was referring to a section of the page that claims "Harris, if elected, will also be the first president without Caucasian ancestry." Caucasian doesn't just mean Europe, it includes the Middle East and South Asia. JohnIllinois1827 (talk) 19:30, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps we should remove that. The meaning in the term keeps changing. [3][4] O3000, Ret. (talk) 21:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

But how? Caucasian Americans still exist? Kcmastrpc (talk) 22:42, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

If the word means different things to different people, it doesn't appear to be a good word choice for an encyclopedia. Indeed, your link and the link in the article Caucasian Americans redirects to article "White People" which says: "Caucasian, a usage that has been criticized" O3000, Ret. (talk) 22:45, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 October 2024

Change Kamala becoming the 5th sitting VP to become president, to 6th sitting VP to become president. The page doesn't list Joe Biden as one of the VPs to have become president. 2603:8080:B900:4B0A:E865:2DD9:1F0A:1E00 (talk) 11:53, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done. Having been out of office for 4 years prior to becoming president, Biden was a former - not sitting - VP at the time of his presidential inauguration. Thus, the statement in question is correct. A. Randomdude0000 (talk) 13:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Remove/integrate 'firsts' section

This section is unorganized trivia for 'firsts' of the campaign if elected and would fall under MOS:TRIVIA and MOS:EMBED. There's no equivalent section in other campaign articles such as Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign, Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign, Joe Biden 2020 presidential campaign, Donald Trump 2016 presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton 2016 presidential campaign. The section should be removed and integrated into the article prose if appropriate. Mousymouse (talk) 03:38, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Anyone can reintegrate useful bits as appropriate. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:07, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Opposition Section: Addition of Congressman Jared Golden

I believe we should add to the Opposition Section information regarding incumbent Democratic U.S. House Representative Jared Golden of Maine's 2nd congressional district and co-chair of the Blue Dog Coalition for the 118th Congress. He told Axios he would "absolutely not" commit to voting for the Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris in November and in a written statement said that he will not be endorsing the party’s nominee for president, Vice President Kamala Harris, adding it would be his “last statement” on the matter. Golden even published an op-ed arguing former President Trump is going to win the election, that he’s “OK with that.”, and he is even willing to work with him. Smobes (talk) 01:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Also, Congressman Jared Golden as a super delegate for Maine's delegation chose to abstain from voting for Kamala Harris as the Democratic National Committee’s presidential nominee during the early Democratic nomination virtual roll call. Smobes (talk) 01:50, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 October 2024

After where it says "The Uncommitted National Movement declined to endorse a candidate", I propose we add "Incumbent Democratic U.S. House Representative Jared Golden of Maine's 2nd congressional district and co-chair of the Blue Dog Coalition for the 118th Congress has declined to endorse a candidate and will not commit to voting for Harris in November. Golden published an op-ed arguing that former President Trump is going to win the election, that he’s “OK with that.”, and he is even willing to work with him." Smobes (talk) 02:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done: This section is about opposition, and Golden is only declining to make an endorsement (as noted in the sources he is in a vulnerable seat and this could effect his own reelection). This isn't the same as the uncommitted movement declining to endorse, which is explicitly a protest movement aimed at changing Harris' policy on Israel. The op-ed also argued that Trump would win against Biden, not Harris. Jamedeus (talk) 03:33, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Addition of Kamala HQ misinformation in the Campaign Section

On September 14th, 2024, CNN published a fact check article regarding the "official rapid response page" for the Harris-Waltz campaign, Kamala HQ. In that article they discerned numerous posts by Kamala HQ and had come to the conclusion that Kamala HQ had been deceptively editing clips and making inaccurately captioning video clips often targeted at Donald Trump and JD Vance. I nominate this information for the campaign section.

SereneSea (talk) 23:36, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, strongly agree. Remarkably, there is zero inclusion of any criticism of the Harris campaign… with the sole exception of pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli activists. More in new topic below. Ekpyros (talk) 18:53, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done This page needs a lot more cleanup than this, but I'll do what I can. Good eye! Bremps... 18:05, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Needs past tense and… WP:BALANCE and WP:NPOV?

The campaign is over, so the article should be put in the past tense.

Far more concerning is that this entire article contains virtually none of the criticism of or pushback against Harris's campaign—with the exception being an "Opposition" section that turns out to be limited to pro-Palestinian criticism of Harris's positions.

How is this possible? For months, Harris has been widely criticized for—just as an example—flipping numerous positions from those of a far-left progressive to those of a moderate Democrat in the interests of political expediency (e.g.., fracking, guns, immigration, criminal-justice, etc.). Many, including allies, criticized her media strategy, including limiting her exposure to "friendly" outlets — and even many of her supporters raked her over the coals for failing to differentiate her positions from Biden's on multiple occasions.

Certainly the criticism will mount, now that pro-Harris media outlets are no longer attempting to aid in her election. But this should prompt a little soul-searching, no? How is it that both this article and its twin both read like they were written by a Harris campaign staffer? This falls so far beneath encyclopedic standards that it should cause alarm in anyone still committed to maintaining WP:NPOV.

Thanks! Ekpyros (talk) 18:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. One issue that I can see is her economic position being described as opposition to price gouging , which is a pejorative, and implies a specific intent on the part of the seller, instead of more descriptively stating that she supports some price controls. I'll get to that. Bremps... 15:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Terrific! When I read this article I was stunned—no other encyclopedia in world history would publish articles on opposing presidential campaigns with this level of disparity and such utterly different treatment. Ekpyros (talk) 18:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 October 2024

After where it says in the Background Section, "Joe Biden's age, which at the time was 80, was being used as a "battering ram" by Republicans" we should add to the sentence, "and as a focal point of Democratic U.S. Representative Dean Phillips's challenge of Biden in the 2024 Democratic Party Presidential Primaries." Smobes (talk) 05:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding Dean Phillips here would be WP:UNDUE. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

I just think the sentence is misleading to other people that "Joe Biden's age, which at the time was 80, was being used as a "battering ram" by Republicans" because it is a value judgment that fails to mention that an incumbent Democratic Congressman with a national audience was also making similar claims at the time which makes it appear as a purely partisan issue. It falsely portrays a narrative that Biden's age concerns were not discussed by any incumbent Democrats holding national office back in 2023, and only Republicans at the time were talking about it. And I don't understand how it is giving undue weight to mention there was bipartisan talk about the issue of Biden's age when a Democrat who raised these concerns got over 500,000 votes and four pledged delegates as per the results of the primaries to the Democratic National Convention largely due to his rhetoric about concerns of Biden being able to finish a second term in office. Smobes (talk) 15:26, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Fair point. But, Phillips's campaign received little attention and ended long before Biden dropped out. The pressure campaign by Democrats to get him out started after the debate, which is really what made the issue a "battering ram". If others believe that Phillips should be added, then we can do so, but it requires WP:CONSENSUS. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:48, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

The part of the background section we are talking about is not referring to the issue of Biden's age being a "battering ram" by Democrats starting after the debate... Instead, the paragraph of this section we are talking about refers to long before the debate, which explicitly mentions that this was taking place back when Biden was still 80 years old. So, the time that is being referenced would have been before November 20th, 2023, when Biden turned 81. The article wrongly makes it sound to the readers that back before November 2023, only elected officials who were Republicans used these concerns about his age to mount opposition to Biden's reelection efforts as a "battering ram", but that was not true because incumbent Democratic Representative Dean Phillips was also articulating similar talking points at that time in 2023 about Biden's ability to serve a second term due to age and health concerns. Phillips frequently expressed concerns about Biden's age while running for the 2024 presidential nomination for the Democratic Party and contributed to that "battering ram" by making it a bipartisan talking point on the national stage.

I will make another post seeking consensus on adding Dean Phillips to the background section. Smobes (talk) 02:58, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Does "received little attention" mean that it wasn't widely covered—or just that you, personally, weren't aware of it? Because the former is entirely false. While it's true that virtually all Democratic politicians at the time professed to be "baffled" by Phillips running on the issue of Biden's age, and Tim Walz even went out of his way to mock his fellow Minnesotan, I seem to recall that there was in fact quite a lot of coverage at the time, then some more recently and even extremely recently. And I can only imagine that, as Democrats bring additional guns to their circular firing squad, more will be written about how listening to Phillips might have averted such a catastrophic loss. That being the case, I frankly have a hard time understanding the rationale for claiming that his widely covered, widely mocked and minimized, but ultimately prescient Democratic primary challenge is WP:UNDUE—but look forward to being enlightened! Ekpyros (talk) 01:51, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 November 2024

There appears to be a CONSENSUS on the talk page for this article that it is DUE to add in the Background Section that Congressman Dean Phillips expressed concerns similar to Republicans about Biden's age concerns back in October 2023 when launching his primary run against the incumbent president.

After where it says in the Background Section, "Joe Biden's age, which at the time was 80, was being used as a "battering ram" by Republicans" we should add to the sentence, "and as a focal point of Democratic U.S. Representative Dean Phillips's lonely challenge of Biden in the 2024 Democratic Party Presidential Primaries." Smobes (talk) 01:49, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

References