Talk:Aschberg

Requested move 28 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 17:18, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

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• Kamenáč → Aschberg
• Aschberg → Aschberg (disambiguation)

– The article was recently moved, in good faith, from Aschberg to Kamenáč on the basis that the summit lies within the Czech Republic. However, it is clear that a) the mountain as a whole is very much on the Czech-German border and b) that, looking at ngram viewer, it has always been called the Aschberg in English sources whereas Kamenáč does not register at all in English sources. The location of the summit is less relevant than the English WP:COMMONNAME used in WP:RS. Bermicourt (talk) 11:24, 28 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 05:48, 5 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 09:10, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Added move of associated disambiguation page. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:30, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Seems eminently sensible to move it back. If it has only recently been moved, hardly any discussion should be needed. Imaginatorium (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Ngram viewer shows results of the word Aschberg in connection with Olof Aschberg (and maybe with Robert Aschberg too). Aschberg is also the name of the observation tower and of the settlement on the German side of the mountain, which can also bias the results. Note that Aschberg has multiple meanings and is already a disambiguation page, so I'm against this move, Kamenáč is a reasonable name. And if there would be move, OK, but the only opinion is Aschberg (Ore Mountains). FromCzech (talk) 12:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

I deliberately used "the Aschberg" in Ngram viewer to avoid any clash with surnames which would never normally be preceded by "the". The settlement is not called Aschberg but Ashbergsiedlung; either way we don't normally precede settlement names with "the" and the settlement is so small, I doubt any English sources mention it; likewise the tower. Meanwhile no Ngram constraints were put on Kamenáč at all and it still never appeared. So I'm afraid it's no contest. Of course, Czech names associated with this topic should be included in the article and we will have a redirect from the Czech name too. Just need to follow English Wiki practice. Bermicourt (talk) 13:28, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

"the Aschberg" will find results like " the Aschberg-McRoberts deal", "the Aschberg donation" etc., unrelated to the mountain. On the other side, you can replace "Kamenáč" with "Kamenac" without diacritics, and you will get some results (but there is also Kamenac). I'm not saying Aschberg is not more common name in English-language sources, but ngram results seems to me unusable for the sake of argument. FromCzech (talk) 14:20, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Of course, it's impossible to eliminate all spurious results. But if you plug "Aschberg" and "mountain" into Google books, you'll no doubt have seen that this is the US Library of Congress name and is also used in English books, whereas nothing at all comes up for "Kamenáč" or "Kamenac" with mountain. No one likes to see geographical objects written in a foreign language when they have their own name, but we have to go by WP:COMMONNAME. Sometimes that falls in favour of the Czech language, sometimes German and sometimes even a unique English name. But of course, there's always Czech Wikipedia, where I'm sure you don't find English names taking precedence. :) Bermicourt (talk) 14:39, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Germany has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 09:10, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Czech Republic has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 09:10, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Mountains has been notified of this discussion. – robertsky (talk) 09:10, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Article should not have been moved without discussion. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:16, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.