Talk:Key West (Philosopher Pirate)

Requested move 23 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 16:22, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

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Key West (Bob Dylan song) → Key West (Philosopher Pirate) – The song's title (as listed on the album sleeve and all digital releases) is "Key West (Philosopher Pirate)". The article was previously titled this, but was moved with no consensus and "clearer dab" left as the bizarre reasoning. "Key West" is simply not the name of the song; the parenthetical is a part of its title. If we're going to start truncating song names, should we also hit Street Spirit (Fade Out) and It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine)? And just to make sure a WP:COMMONNAME argument wouldn't work, I combed through multiple reviews and articles covering the album and they all list the song as "Key West (Philosopher Pirate)". NYT, New Yorker, LA Times, Guardian, NME, Variety, Rolling Stone, Independent, Atlantic, FT, Slate. Οἶδα (talk) 02:46, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support for the reasons outlined above by Οἶδα. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:48, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose https://bob-dylan.org.uk/archives/15749 not a super source but does show that the song exists without the confusing dab In ictu oculi (talk) 22:28, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

• What am I looking at? .....are you seriously citing a random forum post by some fan writer? embarassing. and this is not a "confusing dab", it's the song's title. Οἶδα (talk) 00:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Dohn joe (talk) 15:11, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Key West (Philosopher Pirate)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 16:55, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 18:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

   b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a. (reference section):

   b. (citations to reliable sources):

   c. (OR):

   d. (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a. (major aspects):

   b. (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):

   b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

I will review this today! --K. Peake 18:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Infobox looks good!
• Change the opening sentence's introduction to the song on the album to reading as "Bob Dylan, released as the ninth track on his thirty-ninth studio album, Rough and Rowdy Ways (2020)"
• The lead is somewhat out of order; the ballad sentence should be the one after recording and the high points part should come with the rest of the critical commentary; also, the ballad part is not sourced in the body anywhere
• "It is a" → "The song is a"
• Wikilink accordion
• "for Rough and Rowdy Ways were written" → "for the album were written"

• I have reworked the lead to take on board the feedback, but not exactly as per your suggestions. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:56, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Background and release

• Add the exact release date of Rough and Rowdy Ways in prose because this is needed for the release date in the infobox to be sourced
• Remove overly obvious wikilink on Los Angeles
• "Tony Garnier and drummer" → "Tony Garnier, and drummer"
• Wikilink Hammond organ
• "A bar stool with Bob Dylan's name" → "A bar stool with Dylan's name" on the img text

• Removed - couldn't find any suitable non-promo sources after the remval of the Florida Keys Weekly Newspapers material. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:33, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• [6] should be re-invoked at the end of the sentences per usage of direct quoting

• Amended per the points above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:58, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Critical reception

• Retitle to Reception
• "the best 25 songs of the year." → "the best 25 songs of 2020."

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• "in his praise" but notes that" → "in his praise", but noted how" and put more of this quote into your own words please
• "and calls it" → "and called it"

• Reworked to address the two point above.. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• "of Rough and Rowdy Ways are the New Yorker's " → "of Rough and Rowdy Ways are The New Yorker's " plus merge this with the above para
• What relevance does the performance img have to reception?

• Moved. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• "which he cites as" → "which he cited as"
• "Historian Douglas Brinkley, who conducted" → "Brinkley, who conducted"

• Removed due to concerns with source. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Merge the Spectrum Culture para with the above one and put more of this into your own words; please invoke the ref at the end of any separated sentences using direct quotes

• Muchly trimmed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• "placed it at" → "placed "Key West" at"

• Amended (also "No." to "number"). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Merge the last para with the penultimate one
• Remove wikilink on Rolling Stone
• "decade"[26] Associated Press writer" → "decade",[26] while the Associated Press writer"
• The Father John Misty list is not sourced

• Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
• All addressed; with some comments above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Cultural references

• Maybe introduce him as a US President so it is clearer?
• The paras seem like too much; there should be two maximum or maybe even one, also could you not merge this and composition since the references are short here?

• Added ref to "President". Combined with the earlier section. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:55, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Live performances

• Remove wikilink on Rolling Stone

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:30, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Accolades

• Rolling Stone should only be wikilinked on the first instance here

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

References

• Wikilink The New York Times on ref 2
• Add a work/publisher for ref 3
• Wikilink Hyperallergic on ref 4
• glidemagazine.com → Glide Magazine on ref 5
• I don't think refs 6 and 7 are reliable unless you can clarify otherwise

• I thought that their about page was OK; but will replace this if necessary. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

• BennyOnTheLoose I would say the about source reads too much like self-praise from the website, so please remove. --K. Peake 18:27, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wikilink Rolling Stone on ref 8
• Wikilink HuffPost on ref 9
• Author-link for Rob Sheffield should be on ref 10 instead of refs 11 and 12
• Ref 13 is a duplicate of ref 4
• Wikilink The New Yorker and fix MOS:QWQ issues with ref 14
• Wikilink Hot Press on ref 15
• Cite Gothamist as publisher instead with the wikilink and remove staff from the author on ref 16
• Wikilink Extra.ie and cite as publisher instead on ref 17
• Pipe British GQ to GQ on ref 18
• To me, it looks like a WP:SELFPUB violation on ref 21

• Smith is a lecturer in Film, Video, Animation and New Genres at the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee, and an author of the Columbia University Press book Flickering Empire: How Chicago Invented the U.S. Film Industry. However, if you feel that this isn't adequate for an SPS relating to music, I won't dispute it. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
• His review is quoted by Michael Gray on page 291 of Outtakes On Bob Dylan: Selected Writings 1967–2021. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

• Wikilink The Big Issue on ref 24
• Wikilink The Guardian on ref 25
• What exactly makes ref 28 a reliable source?

• I don't think it is, and the info cited is rather incidental. Removed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

• faroutmagazine.co.uk → Far Out and pipe to Far Out (website) on ref 30
• Cite AllMusic as publisher instead with the wikilink on ref 31
• Ref 34 is a duplicate of ref 23

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; this went quite fast and the main problem is the reference section to be honest! --K. Peake 20:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

• Many thanks for another thorough and very helpful review, K. Peake. Hopefully I've addressed the points above without creating too many new issues. Let me know about anything else required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:02, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

• ✓ Pass now, this is fully ready what a great job! --K. Peake 06:56, 1 August 2024 (UTC)