Talk:Jonghyun/Archive 1

Archive 1

File:Jonghyun - Shinee.png Nominated for speedy Deletion

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File:Jjong.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Profile Picture

Is it possible for someone to upload a recent profile picture of Jonghyun for his wikipedia page? It will be helpful so that people can identify who he is.

Thanks.

Zeraiya (talk) 17:43, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 06:58, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

---

Jonghyun → Kim Jonghyun – per my previous successful RM at Kwon Yuri and Jessica Jung. His two bandmates Lee Taemin and Choi Minho are given in this style (except for Onew and Key, they are clearly stage name) and also per WP:NCP. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 09:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC) --Morning Sunshine (talk) 05:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support. He is given as "김종현" (Kim Chong-hyŏn) on the Shinee site. It seems backwards for an encyclopedia to be on a "first name basis" with a subject when he himself uses his full name for his Twitter account. The argument in favor single names for Korean performers is that these are stage names. But Korean movie and TV credits are generally by full name. Even when the short form of a name is an actual credited stage name, that doesn't necessarily override WP:NCP#Single_name. Kauffner (talk) 14:00, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Removal of nicknames from infobox

I have removed the nicknames from the 'also known as' field of the infobox. The field is meant for alternate names used professionally and not covered elsewhere in the infobox. It is not for nicknames. According to the article he has used none of those names professionally, so please do not re-add them to the infobox. :) Shinyang-i (talk) 07:01, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Sources

Listen, if you guys are fans of Shinee and Jonghyun, you should be following their official forum (shineee.net) as well as other Kpop related sites as netizenbuzz or several fanpages on tumblr. These sites usually link to the official source, so use it instead of allkpop or soompi or whatever. These sites are not reliable. Try to make this site look more serious if you actually care about him! I would add sources on my own and improve the article but I'm busy with my exams right now and I only have internet on my phone so it will take a few month before I can help out, till then it would be nice if other users at least try to do something usefull instead to add crappy sources and create useless stuff, thanks! --46.114.33.94 (talk) 15:41, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 December 2017

Please add that, according to a credible weibo post (reliable source from previous posts) Jonghyun is an organ donor and his organs will be donated. https://www.allkpop.com/forum/threads/jonghyun-will-be-donating-his-organs-left-heritage-for-sister.127821/ 101.53.221.103 (talk) 04:33, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

 Not done. Social media posts like Weibo messages are usually not considered reliable; the sources we use should be written and edited by professionals. CityOfSilver 14:29, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Please be respectful to people asking for changes and understand they are very upset. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.107.246 (talk) 00:12, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

27 Club

Shouldn't he be identified as a member of the 27 Club? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.54.232.175 (talk) 05:47, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

He has been added on the 27 Club article I see, I wouldn't mention it on his own page unless it is written about by a reliable source. NZFC^(talk) 05:52, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Is this a reliable source http://news.abs-cbn.com/entertainment/12/19/17/shinees-jonghyun-joins-ill-fated-27-club CherryPie94 (talk) 20:40, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Yip that would be CherryPie94 and I would say there will be more out there as the fact gets picked up. Can see here [1][2][3][4] NZFC^(talk) 20:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

the 27 club is generally reserved only for notable musicians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:182:4300:4F94:BD7A:135:CE5E:1C5B (talk) 03:38, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Convenience Store Details

Hello,

I don't think on an encyclopedic standpoint that we should be including the Convenience Store Details, because the Convenience Store Details are not really necessary per WP:NOTNEWS, like what Jonghyun bought and the car moving back and forth. What do you guys think?

Sincerely,

Tibbydibby (talk) 00:41, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Change on article main Image.

Proposition to change the image of the article, due to the lack of representation of the profession or personality of the subject. Also, to avoid possible stigma or bad judgement of those seeking mental health support.

Suggestion to change to Picture (Copyright free) 19/09/2015 Guerrila Date Healing Story by Jonghyun ©Newsen AuraAcqua (talk) 10:15, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose I don't see how his current image causes stigma or bad judgment. Plus can you link to the image you want? CherryPie94 (talk) 10:32, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

The bad judgement is implied on the semiotics of the mentioned image. It portrays darkness in a profile of a deceased who fought to get out of it. Black images with heavy facial expressions portray stigma on those depressed because it creates a false sense of inevitable failure. It could be changed to portray a better image of the singer and a better image of the behavior of the singer and those coping with depression as a sign of hope and not the lack of it. I can't upload the images because I don't have a computer at the moment and mobile version can not upload images, but if possible, these are images by Newsen media outlet coverage of the event Healing Story ny Jonghyun. I can not post links in these replies it seems. If there id another way of contacting editor to send the image, please guide me and I will. Thank you in advance. AuraAcqua (talk) 17:16, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Please consider changing the main image of the english version of the article. It depicts a dark, sad image of the artist and promotes bad judgement about those seeking mental health support leading to stigmatized view about those coping with depression and doesn't relate with the profession of the artist.If you can't find (suggestion, because I can not upload images using mobile) images of the event Healing Story by Jonghyun (Newsen media outlet images of the event are not copyright restricted and can be used without issue with credits. I suggest using the same image of the Korean version of the article. This is very important. I hope you can help. As a depressed person and also as a fan, I count with your help to aid others to see a better image than this darkness connotation. Thank you. AuraAcqua (talk) 20:37, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Sounds like a fan request to me, not a valid reason to change the pic. I really can't understand the reason to change it. I have depression too, but I don't see the connection between dark images to depression and stigma. Let's wait and see the opinion of other people. CherryPie94 (talk) 23:07, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't know what exactly means a fan request since there is detailed information about why this picture doesn't provide a good conotation of the main subject. Isn't to inform and provide something better than just a random description the purpose of putting an image in the article? It's pretty obvious thst is not a good picture of the deceased for anyone who knows the person or not. Considering the stigma of depression, the negative judgement of those who might not know something about Jonghyun's life or personality, The picture reinforce the conotation of depression as an endless darkness for those who might want to diss the depicted subject in other websites. It's sincerely important to maintain this one single specific image of the deceased for some reason? Because it doesn't provide any clue about the profession of the subject and it doesn't show a good source of light in the picture neither. The suggestion is valid because of this reason on top of the other mentioned. The suggestion of images of the event - Healing Story by Jonghyun - also provide a better lightning, a better resolution and a better image of the deceased and also a better understanding of the profession of the subject. AuraAcqua (talk) 05:20, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

If it's too difficult to upload, the Korean version of the article have a better image aswell. Thank you in advance. AuraAcqua (talk) 05:25, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose As above by CherryPie94, a valid reason hasn't been provided, however if a better picture can be found, I'm ok to look into changing it. I'm not impressed by AuraAcqua who came to mytalk page and I see they have also gone to Explicit and PaleCloudedWhite user pages as well to try get people who have permission to make changes, change the picture on this article after being told no here. NZFC^(talk) 05:26, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

@AuraAcqua: is talking about this photo on Korean version of this article. I'm ok with it being changed to that or there are a number of other photos of him here that it could be changed too. But would need agreement from others before we change. NZFC^(talk) 06:08, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to change the picture, anyone can do it and it can be discussed if reverted. However, AuraAcqua's approach was simply not appropriate (side note: I highly suggest you read the image use policy, as any copyrighted image from any media outlet would not abide by it, particularly in violating the non-free content criteria). Contacting other users following the opposition of this request can be construed as inappropriate canvassing. The request on my talk page was also incredibly loaded—particularly the "stigma" claim and "as a depressed person myself and a sincere fan" descriptor—and actions like these will only aid in further opposition of this request. As it stands, this current infobox image is perfectly fine. That being said, I have initiated a cursory search for replacements, particularly of images of Jonghyun from this year and there may be at least one viable candidate for a replacement. I'm currently at work, but later this evening, I may come up with something. ℯxplicit 06:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the current picture - it hadn't struck me that it portrays the subject in a way that reinforces stigma about depression, and I'm talking as someone who has been diagnosed with depression in the past (seems to be a theme in this thread...). On the other hand, I also don't have a problem with the alternative image currently on the Korean article; both images are recent and clearly show the subject's face. I can understand why some readers might consider the Korean article image to be a more attractive one, due to the fact that the subject is smiling. It also has the advantage that the subject has an object associated with his profession - a microphone - in his hand. A question though is one of hair colour: one image it is dark, and the other it is pink. Was the subject known for usually having a particular hair colour? A quick scan of available images on Commons suggests that Jonghyun changed his hair colour quite frequently, with it usually being either dark or blond (2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016), but maybe that doesn't matter. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 09:45, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I have updated the infobox image. Hopefully, this will satisfy all involved parties. ℯxplicit 09:54, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

As informed in each person I tried to contact about the change in the picture informing not only the personal reasons but also the reasons that make the suggestion plausible considering how other websites use the images in Wikipedia articles as their headlines, when it comes to the bad resolution, the bad lightning, the bad description of the character of the deceased, the lack of connection with a direct understanding of the profession of the deceased, I believe that is a valid concern. The stigma still relevant and as also mentioned previously, If desired, I can show why this picture is not good by providing hateful and judgemental comments in another mentions of this pictures in other websites.

Also, As previously mentioned, I contacted other users because they were active right at the moment editing the page and I though this section wouldn't be visible for other editors if one editor only, replied first.

Using the mobile version of wikipedia, the responsivity of the website is poor. There is no clear option to edit or upload content depending on the browser used so that's the reason for contacting other editors who could have possibly passed here without reading this suggestion.

As I also previously mentioned, I am not the only person here wanting this picture to be changed into some other better image not only for the article, but for the deceased and for better usage in future mentions that could use the image here as a headline image.

I am not here trying to spend my time or the time of editors without a valid reason. It seems to be ridiculed by editors the reasons as a "fan request" despite the effort in providing t AuraAcqua (talk) 20:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

The picture has been changed; have you not noticed? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 20:35, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

It's how you went about it, you don't canvas people you discuss it here. Like I told you on my page yet you messaged me again on it. You could have just said you wanted the picture changed and said we could have a better looking photo with out all the emotive stuff to try get sympathy for the change. That is just going to get people's backs up. In the end the picture has been changed and does look better, you just went about it wrong. NZFC^(talk) 20:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

... providing the reasons, the technical issues and the concern regarding the semiotics of the image used in here.

I understand that is not easy to find an image with copy rights infringements but it this issue was relevant in the first place, the korean version of the article have another picture without any issue in this regard.

The suggested images proposed by me considering technical and semiotic value in this concern were also free to be used with credit. (Newsen media outlet) so I don't understand why there is so much apparent need to keep this image instead of other that could avoid misunderstandings in these regards.

As mentioned above, I am not here because I want to spend my time or the time of editors in vain. This is a solid request with solid reasons and visible reasons but seems to be ridiculed by some editors because of something I can't understand considering the amount of reasons and the formal tone I am trying to dispose in here.

As mentioned, I am using mobile to write and visualize this thread so I hope editors can be more understanding of the limitations. AuraAcqua (talk) 20:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all for your efforts and also to the respect concerning the issue and for the deceased image. Also, apologies for the occured issues with posts due to the responsivity of the mobile version of the website. Have a nice day and new year. AuraAcqua (talk) 20:52, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Primary topic?

I notice that several (if not many) editors have been using "[[Kim Jong-hyun]]" to refer to the singer. I often get those notifications whenever they use the link to the dabpage inadvertently. Is the singer more primary than Kim Jong-hyun (sport shooter)? George Ho (talk) 04:56, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Honestly, even before his death, I think the singer was the primary topic for name Kim Jong-hyun. Kim Jong-hyun (singer) averaged 824 views per day prior to December 18. Kim Jong-hyun (sport shooter) was averaging four views all of 2017—the highest being 13—and had garnered basically no interest in the western world, and JR (South Korean singer) was created less than 48 hours ago and uses a different title anyway. ℯxplicit 05:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

SHINee and Jonghyun (Simple English Wikipedia)

I don't know if this is the place to mention, but there is alot of editing to be done on Jonghyun's page on Simple English Wikipedia and SHINee's. It hasn't been updated since 2009 (SHINee's) and Jonghyun's section hasn't really been edited until very recently (to announce he died.) A little help?-K-popguardian (talk) 23:13, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Death section

Hello editors - is all of the information within the death section really necessary? Information such as, mentioned in a comment above, the convenience store happenings, where exactly in the room he was found or whether he was wearing a mask or not. I feel like a mass of minor edits are being made, re-phrasing a section which no longer needed to be altered. What are some other opinions on this? Alexanderlee (talk) 12:42, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I believe the sentence about him not wearing a mask is not necessary. I'm conflicted with "What he bought from the store", I think it is unnecessary but at the same time feel like it is an important fact since some people think he went to the store to buy the coal briquettes for his suicide. CherryPie94 (talk) 12:56, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

I will propose that the stuff that is struck out, like this, be removed from the section. Also, some wording might need to be adjusted due to the nature of the investigation results and his death. What do you guys think? Tibbydibby (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree a lot of information that isn't required that is just being added because it is published somewhere. Really it should just be down to the main facts of the death so I like what Tibbydibby has written and agree we should go with something like that. NZFC^(talk) 04:04, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

@CherryPie94, Alexanderlee, and NZ Footballs Conscience: I just crossed some more stuff out in my draft proposal. Do you guys want to read and suggest more changes? Feel free to edit my proposal (even removing the stuff I crossed out) and do feel free to let me know of any further editing before we go ahead and remove the bulk information. If there are any opposition to the proposal, feel free to voice it. Make sure you follow Wikipedia's policies though. Tibbydibby (talk) 18:50, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I think what you have there is great and only including necessary information for Wikipedia, thank you for working on this. Alexanderlee (talk) 19:06, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree, I like what you've done there Tibbydibby and feel that should be what is left included in that section now. If more wants to be added back in by other users then it should be relevant and not just gossip. NZFC^(talk) 19:15, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Thank you guys! I will do so in a few days once the people in the Wikiproject Group gets a chance to comment or even suggest further changes. But if nothing else is suggested, I will proceed to doing that edit on New Year's day in the daytime. Thank you again! Tibbydibby (talk) 19:22, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Maybe later, but I say we should keep the edits for now. There's alot of gaps for alot of people right now, and I'm sure some fans are scared it's something bigger. I say we keep the edits for NOW, but once everything dies down, (most likely after his farewell single releases,) then we remove it, because then it won't be as bad to other people. But right NOW, I'm sure fans are hysterical still. The last thing we want is this page to be filled with numerous complaints like the Talk:SHINee page.-K-popguardian (talk) 22:58, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

@K-popguardian: what fans want is not relevant, this is not a fan page - this seems to be forgotten a lot. If the edits aren’t necessary, and others agree on removal, then there is no need to wait so it “won’t be as bad” for fans. It may sound harsh, but that’s the reality - Wikipedia is not fan-friendly. Alexanderlee (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

@Alexanderlee: No, no, what I'm saying that his death was a little over a week ago. Some of these details are still new. Keep them until everything dies down because this info could be necessary.-K-popguardian (talk) 23:10, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

@K-popguardian: that’s part of my initial point though, from the standpoint of Wikipedia it isn’t necessary for every detail just because they’re true and sourcable. The fact he did or didn’t wear a mask when entering his room isn’t needed, nor what he bought at the store, or a black dog he had a tattoo of, which literally could be anything considering he never explained the meaning of it. A lot of what was removed in Tibbydibby’s draft was trivial and unnecessary information that doesn’t need to be in the article; at least in my opinion and the other editors on this thread. Info being new isn’t a reason to keep it either, this is not a news report. Alexanderlee (talk) 23:27, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

I see a lot of it has been removed but I wanted to say I'm in agreement with Alexanderlee that it should be removed and no consideration really needs to be had of what fans want. Wikipedia is just here for facts and not really every little piece of gossip which is what a lot of that detail was. If fans want to read that information, they can do so on many other sites. NZFC^(talk) 00:41, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Was this just applied without taking into account the changes that occurred during this discussion? The information I added here was completed removed with what appears to be no consideration. ℯxplicit 09:24, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Ah I don't remember this clearly, but that's definitely noteworthy information that should be included. Alexanderlee (talk) 12:26, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

@Explicit: I've just added this back here, I copied it directly from the edit you made please feel free to alter Alexanderlee (talk) 12:33, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Minor change in Career

Hi everybody! So I've added some information on Jonghyun's time as host of Blue Night radio show. I found an interview which was quite interesting. However, it's in Korean and the only translated version that I could find was a Tumblr post...I've listed both of them as sources. Does it work? Thanks! KS531 (talk) 08:41, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

@KS531: The Korean article is fine, sources don't have to be in English. Social media shouldn't be used as a source though, so I've removed the Tumblr source. Alexanderlee (talk) 14:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Public Image section

I would like to suggest that the 'public image' section be changed to 'legacy'(maybe move under death sections). Because it describes his role in the South Korean music industry and the impact he had. Thanks! KS531 (talk) 19:58, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

I have done that since I agree with what you said. CherryPie94 (talk) 08:49, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Cause of Death in Infobox

I do want to ask: Would just stating "Carbon Monoxide Poisoning" be sufficient enough as his cause of death? That is due to the Charcoal Briquettes found in his apartment. But the ruling out of suicide is only circumstantial from all the sources I've read. I do realize there was a suicide letter sent to Dear Cloud's Nine9, and the "let me go" texts to his sister, but unlike Chester Bennington which hanging by a rope is moreso direct, Jonghyun's case is a bit more circumstantial. What do you guys think? Tibbydibby (talk) 18:22, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

@Tibbydibby: (Sorry for a late response) While not exactly 'direct' as you put it, you don't exactly burn charcoal briquettes in a frying pan by accident, and given the rest of the evidence, such as the notes and text messages, it's a pretty reasonable conclusion to come to. The police's statement is that his death is ruled as suicide, so there's no reason to remove suicide from cause of death Alexanderlee (talk) 12:11, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@Alexanderlee: Thank you for the response! I will for sure leave "Suicide" in the infobox now that you have mentioned it. Tibbydibby (talk) 03:48, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 February 2018

Please change Jonghyun dropped out of high school in 10th grade to pursue a music career to Jonghyun went to an all boys middle school and a Christian high school (Mount Zion) before attending Seoul Music High School as a trainee. He dropped out of high school in 10th grade to focus on SHINee and later earned his GED. Post-debut, Jonghyun attended Chungwoon University for his Bachelor’s degree in broadcast music and began attending Myeongji University in 2015 studying for a Master’s degree in film and musical 85.222.180.157 (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source so that editors can fact-check this and add it. CherryPie94 (talk) 08:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I added reference for Myongji University and for Seoul Music Institute check youtube video named "서울실용음악고등학교 개교10주년_ 샤이니 종현 축하 인터뷰" that's promo video for the school. There are a lot more sources on Korean websites but I don't understand Korean so it would be great if someone was kind enough to find them. Just typing in Google 'Jonghyun Education' Chungwoon and Myongji University come up. Also you don't have to copy what I wrote you can rewrite the sentences how you think is the best.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.222.180.157 (talk) 16:04, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

The “source” you have provided is not a source, it is a Wikipedia article. Alexanderlee (talk) 17:54, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

I added more so check them out. They're in Korean though. It seems like it's a well-known fact that he went to University, but on English Wikipedia it looks like he's poorly educated. Even in Korean Wikipedia it says all about his education so what for God's sake could you possibly want more? Also if these sources aren't good enough for you, then atleast delete what is written about his high school as you don't have the FULL information about his schooling. Don't make him look bad because of your lack of information. Hope someone serious takes care of this. Thank you.

• http://m.mk.co.kr/news/amp/headline/2017/836887
• http://m.news.naver.com/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=005&aid=0001057180
• https://namu.wiki/w/종현
• https://www.alphawiki.org/w/종현
• https://myongjiblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/명지대학교-몇-운명-사람들-있다/amp/
• https://m.blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=bhjang3&logNo=221169223738&proxyReferer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.kr%2F
• http://m.post.naver.com/viewer/postView.nhn?volumeNo=11389047&memberNo=1857086
• https://librewiki.net/wiki/종현 85.222.180.157 (talk) 06:08, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

All those sources you provided are crap, they are just another wikia articles (namu.wiki, alphawiki.org, librewiki, some wordpress blogs etc.), those are not a sources, those are fancruft sites. Snowflake91 (talk) 11:24, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

The 2nd one looks good. This is the original one for the 2nd link: http://news.kmib.co.kr/article/view.asp?arcid=0923869145&code=11131100&sid1=soc ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 18:07, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

i agree, they’re non reliable sources for wikipedia.

Late response sorry. Rosiedanugbtugn (talk) 19:03, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

@85.222.180.157: Wikis (like Naumwiki and Librewiki etc) and blogs (naver blog and naver post etc) is not WP:IRS. --Garam (talk) 15:54, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Page protection

I humbly request this page administrator to protect this page with semi-protection because of vandalism.Noikun (talk) 05:54, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

@Noikun: You'll have to go to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection for that. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:19, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Infobox Question

Hello, Can I mention Kim So-dam as his sibling? She is notable for having called the cops on Jonghyun when he died from Carbon Monoxide Poisoning. I don't think she needs a page for herself (unless she becomes a well known CEO of something like Toastmasters), but I think his infobox should include Kim So-dam as his sister for that very reason. Thank you, Tibbydibby (talk) 17:21, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Tibbydibby: that doesn’t make her notable at all Alexanderlee (talk) 17:22, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@Alexanderlee: Thank you for the prompt response! :) Tibbydibby (talk) 17:23, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kim Jong-hyun (singer)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: NicklausAU (talk · contribs) 07:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

This will be my first GA review, so please be patient and I will try my best. NicklausAU (talk) 07:13, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add a Y after each individual issue that is resolved or reply with a disagreement/question to individual issues, if you would like. NicklausAU (talk) 14:16, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

• "began a solo career in January, 2015 with his first extended play album, Base." - shouldn't it be "began a solo career in January, 2015, with his first extended play album, Base."? This sort of error appears multiple times in the article. Fixed by reviewer Y
• MOS:LEAD does not appear to be met due to the short length of only two (more like 1.5) paragraphs. An article of this character count should have 3-4 paragraphs as per MOS:LEADLENGTH. I question whether or not the lead "briefly summarizes the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article" per MOS:INTRO. I would suggest more details about his life. His lengthy involvement with the boy-band Shinee, which is the majority of his professional career, and the seemingly large number of songs he wrote for other artist are hardly mentioned.Y

We can add that "Jonghyun is credited for writing the lyrics for 72 songs and composing the music 53 songs" and how he ventured outside of music making and debuted as a radio host. However, not sure what to write since I have never written a lead section. Need help with this! ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 10:27, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

CherryPie94 I had a go at expanding the lead to briefly cover more of the article, so take a look at it and let me know what you think. NicklausAU 03:23, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

What you wrote is good and summaries the article well. Thanks. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 18:52, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, this is the last point raised by my review, so as you are satisfied with the edit I made and I believe MOS:LEAD is now met, I will pass this nomination. Y NicklausAU 03:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

• "and rookie singer Jino" - I believe his stage name is now "Jinho", and he is a member of the boy group "Pentagon". I would suggest mentioning that and linking the word Pentagon to the article for that group rather than his name. Also, the description of "rookie singer" has no significance in this context. Fixed by nominator Y
• "new versions of old songs by music legends." - "music legends" is a very subjective description labelled as a word to watch in MOS:WTW. I would suggest using it as a direct quotation (I believe the source does use those words) and naming the person or organisation using that description. Y

This is actually following the title of the program, so I can't name a person or organization. I just added the double quotes to music legends. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 09:38, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• "The show subsequently came under fire from viewers, who said the program's elimination method was too harsh." - I only figured out what this meant by reading the source. Its relevance to Jonghyun is not clear in the way it is currently written. Fixed by nominator Y
• "He also participated in the vocal direction for all of the aforementioned songs." - Maybe I'm just uncultured but I'm not completely sure what "vocal direction" means in this context. Is it referring to coaching the artists on how to sing those songs? Based on my own confusion, I would suggest rewording that information. Y

Vocal directors coaches the singer while recording the song. They might ask the singer to increase or lower their pitch or sing in a different way to match the music. Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZwMXoPSiqE ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 09:38, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• "all profits from the album sales to be given to Jonghyun's mother, in addition to establishing a foundation "to help those who are living in difficult circumstances"." - a direct quotation like that last bit requires a source afterwards. citation added by nominator Y
• "found unconscious in his apartment by the police and emergency dispatchers at around 6:10 PM" - I believe emergency dispatchers are the people who answer calls to emergency services, so they would not have found him. I suggest "found unconscious in his apartment by police at around 6:10 PM" Fixed by nominator Y

The source does say "Police and 119 rescue workers" aka police and emergency dispatchers. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 17:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

In that case I would suggest "police and rescue workers" then, as the average reader could easily think of the people on the phone. See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_medical_dispatcher NicklausAU (talk) 07:48, 10 July 2018 (UTC) Y

• I would argue that MOS:LAYOUT is also not met due to the large number of single sentence and extremely short paragraphs per MOS:PARA. I would suggest condensing multiple single sentence paragraphs into larger ones or expanding them with additional information to create larger paragraphs with better flow. Y I'm not totally sure it meets MOS:LAYOUT now with my limited experience but I would lean towards yes NicklausAU 03:37, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

I tried expanding and merging sentences. If someone also can help, please do. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 10:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

• I found no problems with MOS:EMBED and MOS:FICT does not apply to this article.
• Throughout the article, phrases specific to kpop such as "title track" are used often. It may help the casual reader to use more widely recognized terms such as "single", meaning the same thing. Similarly, the article uses the term "mini-album" which should be changed to the more recognizable term with the same meaning "EP". Fixed by nominator Y

Title track means the song has the same name as the album, it is not a K-pop thing. I changed it in a couple of instances to lead track and kept it as title track when appropriate. Single means the song is not part of an album, therefore, we can change lead tracks and title tracks to singles. Also, there is a difference between EP and mini-album, so I did not change it. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 22:01, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Important to mention - this is not a point of contention relating to any of the 6 specific MoS pages for GA criteria and is not going to impact the nomination process. It was only an observation, which is why it was listed at the bottom below the point relating to the final 2 MoS pages, but I must say that disagree with your information. While both of your points may have been factually accurate in the past, they have changed with the times. Especially the EP vs LP issue, where "LP" was really only used back when everyone had vinyls. NicklausAU (talk) 08:32, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I changed it after noticing the the pages for those alleged mini-albums say EPs instead of mini-albums. ~~ CherryPie94 🍒🥧 (talk) 09:50, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

• Seoulbeats (ref #64) and SBS Pop Asia (ref #89) are considered unreliable sources by the WikiProject Korea group. See WP:KO/RS#UR. While I believe opinions of WikiProject groups are not "rules" that must be followed, I would strongly suggest finding alternate reliable sources. Replaced by Y
• "Jonghyun was the first artist from SM Entertainment to significantly participate in writing, organizing, and composing an album." is, in my opinion, too strong of a statement with too much opinion in it to make without a citation. I have added a citation needed template. Y
• "The album spans various genres, including electro-punk, EDM and R&B." - Opinion statement that should have a citation. Citation needed template added. Fixed by reviewer Y
• Reference #62 (Grace Danbi Hong; Kim JiYeon (April 1, 2016). "SHINee's Jonghyun Involved in Car Accident". CJ E&M enewsWorld via Mwave. Retrieved September 10, 2016.) no longer exists. The link redirects to an empty Mwave screen with no article. Replaced by nominator Y
• All other references checked and are working NicklausAU (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
• Highest Copyvio is 20.6%, with some similar phrases used. NicklausAU (talk) 14:51, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

a (major aspects): b (focused):

• (Note:this is also in #1 as it applies to both) "The show subsequently came under fire from viewers, who said the program's elimination method was too harsh." - I only figured out what this meant by reading the source. Its relevance to Jonghyun is not clear in the way it is currently written. Fixed by nominator Y
• "He replaced singer Ahn Jung-yeop of Brown Eyed Soul, who had been the host for more than three years." - Not sure if it's relevant to this article who he replaced, and how long she was the host previously. Removed sentence by nominator Y

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

Fair representation without bias:

• WP:NPV Says an article must "represent fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." - Waiting for issues above to be resolved before being passing this part. Some issues refer to possible editorial bias and unreliable sources. Y NicklausAU (talk) 08:14, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

5. It is stable.

No edit wars, etc.:

• There seems to have been edit wars after his death, but they have settled down from what I can see.

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

• All images have been reviewed an approved as available under specified license agreement.

7.Overall:

Pass/Fail:

Overall, this is a nice article that I enjoyed reading despite already being familiar with the subject. Currently awaiting response to review and/or fixes to the issues above. NicklausAU (talk) 06:30, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Congratulations CherryPie94! It looks as though you've put a lot of good work into this article.

His name hasn’t got a hyphen it’s just Jonghyun. . Also where is all his filmography gone?

As above Jjong90 (talk) 19:26, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi Jjong90. For Korean names, see WP:NCKO under Romanization of Names. For filmography, if you are referring to guest appearances, see this discussion. Heolkpop (talk) 15:09, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Translated titles for non-Eng references

This article is very nicely done and after having just read it in full for the first time I would like to make one recommendation I think would help improve the the page: providing title translations for the Korean references used. I had no idea what any korean citation referenced was about unless I clicked open each link (aside from the sentence in the wiki article itself that it was used to support) to view a translation in my browser and I doubt most readers would do that. While there is only so much additional information Eng titles may provide, they are still quite useful (titles help give a better idea of the gist of the piece) and I think putting them in is something the editors who maintain this page should consider. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Death Section Edit

"Jonghyun was found unconscious in his apartment by the police" - This was not his apartment. He passed away in a temporary residential apartment that he checked into for 2 days. I've seen it translated also as being a "hotel". You can do a quick translation of the source originally linked for that sentence to verify, but it's fairly known information and was also translated by Soompi ("At the residence, which, according to a source, was not Jonghyun’s own home but a place he had reserved for two nights"). It's important to clarify that he did not pass away at his own home - which he lived in with his mother, sister, and dog. It took police a while to find him because when he texted his sister they did not know where he was. Many people are mistaking this information because of this Wikipedia page. Adjustments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Layhas (talk) 20:28, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Layhas: the first sentence of the first paragraph of the section notes that he rented AN apartment in xx for xx days, thus the "Jonghyun was found unconscious in his apartment by the police" that begins the second paragraph is in reference to this same apartment. The context is which 'his' is used here is clear and does not imply in any form or fashion that his actual home or permanent place of residence with his family members was where he died. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 20:46, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: Like myself, I believe many people are skipping over reading that opening paragraph and instead will read the more eye-catching sentence below it. My recommendation is to change "his apartment" to "the rented apartment" because I think the paragraph should be able to be understood independently of other paragraphs. Layhas (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Additionally, I would like to recommend altering the sentence "The note referred to a "devouring" depression and his struggles with fame." to be "The note referred to a "devouring" depression, his struggles with fame, and his frustration with mental health doctors." The article does not mention Jonghyun's longterm struggle with depression and his willingness to talk about it (which he did often on his radio show). But he references it in his suicide note that he tried to get help and it did not work out because of the stigma of mental health in Korea. "When you told me in that calm voice that it’s because of my personality, I thought how easy it must be to be a doctor." Source: https://www.soompi.com/article/1095691wpp/jonghyuns-dear-friend-nine9-reveals-final-letter . If you would like me to find another source, I can do that. Layhas (talk) 21:14, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Layhas: I don't maintain this particular page so I'm not the best person to be asking but I am pinging @CherryPie94: who did a lot of work on the article and would be better able to address why what was included was included and if any changes or additions can/should be made as per your requests. At most I do not believe it needs to be altered except for maybe changing the 'his apartment' to 'the apartment' if anything, but I will leave that up to CherryPie. Also pinging @Alexanderlee:. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 21:44, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: Thank you, I appreciate your help! Layhas (talk) 21:52, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

The only thing I would suggest changing would be “his apartment” to “the apartment” for a little clarity, I think if readers are misunderstanding because they’re choosing to only read selective parts of a section, then that’s on the reader and not the article. If you read the section it all makes sense. If you have a reliable source which mentions what you’re wanting to add from the note (is one in the article already? I’m not sure…) then feel free to add in about the stigma. Soompi is considered unreliable per WP:KO/RS and using it as a source is likely to be dismissed, but if they list their own source at the bottom of the article (sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t) then you can use that source, just make sure to check it’s correct first. Alex (talk) 22:01, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Alexanderlee: I agree with changing "his" to "the". With the other part, the reliable source that you're asking for is the letter itself, which is written in Korean on Nine's Instagram and is linked to in Reference 109. What we understand as stigma is not stated expressly in the letter. That would be considered conjecture if you reference only the letter but mental health stigma in Korea is written about commonly elsewhere. To summarize, the last half of the letter details the degree to which the doctors did not understand him. And I think that it's an important part of the letter because he put his career on hold to be seen by these doctors and then he spends a third of his final letter talking about the pain he received from the doctors for blaming his condition on himself. Them doing this is actually a really bad practice for mental health patients. So I think to summarize the letter as only "depression" and "fame" is a bit too incomplete. I don't feel comfortable talking about another country/culture's mental health stigmas since I don't feel it's my place. All of the "reliable" articles that I can find don't do justice to the topic enough to link them. But I would like to at least add as an addition to that one sentence about his letter that he was "frustrated with his mental healthcare doctors" because that much is clearly shown in the letter and implies enough for others to go do their own research about Korean mental healthcare. Layhas (talk) 22:53, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Layhas: reliable sources as listed HERE. This is the source guide we use for k-pop related articles on wiki. If you find anything that mentions what you're talking about from any of these places (soompi sometimes sources its articles from these sites as Alexanderlee mentioned above, so if you can't find one perhaps they may have a korean source linked at the bottom that can be used), run it by the page editors here on the talk page first to make sure it's good before actually editing. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 23:25, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Carlobunnie: I don't want to propose a change that would need additional sources. Adding that he was "frustrated with his mental healthcare doctors" to the sentence about his letter is something that was included in the original letter (Reference 109). If you want to link the Wiki article about South Korean Mental Health to "mental healthcare", you could do that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health_in_South_Korea -- Layhas (talk) 01:19, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Can we change the picture?

This picture is very old now and there are some beautiful pictures of him out there and he deserves a new one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparrow1964 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Given that he died five months after the current picture was taken, you're not going to get much more recent. Being an old picture isn't really a valid reason in this situation. I don't see anything wrong with the current picture, anyway. Alex (talk) 14:24, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 19 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 19:14, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

---

Kim Jong-hyun (singer) → Jonghyun (singer) – WP:MONONYM clearly states that a single name should be used if "the single name is used as a true artist's name". Jonghyun's artist name is simply Jonghyun. The article body itself explicitly states he's better known by his single name. List of songs written by Kim Jong-hyun and Kim Jong-hyun discography also explicitly state he's credited as "Jonghyun". SM Ent, his label, refers to him as just Jonghyun on his website to the point where his family name isn't even mentioned on his artist profile. His music legally refers to "Jonghyun" as the performer in the ASCAP registry; see here. Jonghyun absolutely dwarfs Kim Jong-hyun in Google searches. Articles about him overwhelmingly use Jonghyun and omit "Kim" [5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17], when Kim Jong-hyun is mentioned it's strictly as a birth name and all subsequent mentions use "Jonghyun" [18][19][20][21][22], one even explicitly says he's better known by just "Jonghyun". [23] In fact, the addition of "Shinee's Jonghyun" shows up nearly as much as "Kim Jong-hyun" does. I'd say this is pretty damning evidence of it being an artist's name. This also precedented in pop articles with RMs for Taeyeon, Jungkook and Jimin, and Beyonce, plus pages such as Jennie, Jisoo, Sohyang, Tzuyu, Jeongyeon, Daesung, Zendaya, Khalid... DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 19:55, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - for the same reasons as I opposed Taeyeon and others, the mononym is not just an artistic pseudonym when it's actually their name. Surname is well known and used. This is the natural encyclopedic disambiguation for a large majority of Korean artists - that they even use "Group name's Firstname" as disambiguator which wouldn't be useful on Wikipedia. We still use Oprah Winfrey - this is stable policy for many older articles for their lifetime from this group and others including Choi Min-ho, Lee Tae-min, Kim Hee-chul, Choi Si-won, etc. Evaders99 (talk) 04:18, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. Korean artists are generally known by their given names, but it's not really the same as a mononym. Take a look at this example to see what I mean. The headline gives the subject as "SHINee’s Jonghyun." This format represents an attempt to translate Korean fanzine usage as directly as possible. But of course "[band name]'s [given name]" is not a suitable format for the title of an English-language encyclopedia article. Allan Rice (talk) 02:56, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

But I'm not suggesting that "Shinee's Jonghyun" should be the title, just Jonghyun. Look at all the examples I posted initially, not all of them use Shinee's Jonghyun. Most of them just use Jonghyun. And I fail to see how "generally being known by their first name" differs from a mononym. That's literally what it is—referring to an artist by a single name. Artists can use their first name as a mononym. Would you not consider Beyonce or Zendaya or Prince mononyms? And it doesn't change the fact that those who are looking for Jonghyun will be searching for him by his first name, which is what titles are based on. WP:COMMONNAME. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 06:26, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2021

Jonghyun is known to be one of the best vocalists in the Kpop industry. 2A02:908:1874:2D40:816B:FAEB:5597:8183 (talk) 20:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:43, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 1 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved per consensus. —usernamekiran • sign the guestbook • (talk) 16:12, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

---

• Kim Jong-hyun (singer) → Kim Jong-hyun
• Kim Jong-hyun → Kim Jong-hyun (disambiguation)

– The most popular Jonghyun and Kim Jong Hyun of all time. TheRafaMarc15 (talk) 00:10, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. Prominent indeed — this entry appears in 47 Wikipedias, from Afrikaans to Vietnamese. In contrast, the two other individuals with an English Wikipedia entry (listed at the Kim Jong-hyun disambiguation page) have a three-sentence stub and a one-sentence stub, respectively. Moreover, the above nomination is incomplete without also nominating Kim Jong-hyun → Kim Jong-hyun (disambiguation). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:54, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
• Support Btspurplegalaxy (talk) 01:19, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

• SupportBaaBaaTheSheep^{(talk • ctb)} 11:30, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
• Support clear primary topic. Alex (talk) 11:36, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
• Support definitely the primary topic, dwarfs the other articles in pageviews. Artemisia (talk) 12:53, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Concern to usage of "committed"

Hello, the terminology of saying someone has "committed suicide" is outdated as it is considered disrespectful. Please use "died by suicide" instead. May6v6 (talk) 02:02, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

AFAIK Wikipedia does not consider the term outdated when reliable sources still use it. This consensus was debated in 2021 with no changes.Evaders99 (talk) 04:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC)