Talk:Karay-a language

My name is fiona s mendoza I am 16 years old I live in pulong tamo San ildefinso Bulacan

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I believe this is a dialect of Ilonggo. (Need to research)--Jondel 10:05, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Comparison with Hiligaynon

A section on the difference with Hiligaynon would be good since they are so similar and almost indiscernible from each other.--Jondel 06:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that would be good - but they are not indiscernible from each other. Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon are from different language groups. Kinaray-a is closer to Aklanon than to Hiligaynon. --Chris S. 12:02, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Chris, sorry. I keep forgetting.--Jondel 00:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not that familiar with Aklanon, but my Aklanon friends say that they cannot understand Kinaray-a... and to me, their language sounds Cebuano (just the intonation).--Sedotes (talk) 02:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I've seen plenty of samples of Aklanon writing, notwithstanding the l - e change, the vocabulary is really different, I believe Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon are much more mutually intelligible. The one thing is that I keep thinking that perhaps the linguist made a mistake classifying Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan Language (together with waray-waray) and kinaray-a as Western Visayan. There is one theory that talks about Hiligaynon being an offspring of kinaray-a after all. Richarddr1234 —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC).

No. Hiligaynon is not an offspring of Kinaray-a. See the talk page of Hiligaynon article. But they, together with Aklanon share a common language ancestor. All the three languages are not mutually intelligible at all. I have an Aklanon classmate who and said she can't understand Kinaray-a. She didn't understand Hiligaynon either until she started learning it. Today, she can now fluently speak Hiligaynon. Karay-as can't understand Hiligaynon either, except for the ones with contact with Ilonggos or are influenced by Hiligaynon mass media. My mother has a Karay-a friend who lived in a remote community somewhere in Antique. She can't understand Hiligaynon at all. That's why she speaks in Tagalog with us. She thought Hiligaynon would sound the same as Kinaray-a, but she was wrong. Ilonggos can't understand Karay-as too, and take that from me. I can't understand Kinray-a. Well maybe except the Ilonggos who has lived with Karay-as, like what this article said.

And maybe those linguists were right in classifying Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan language. Actually, Hiligaynon is more mutually intelligible with Cebuano than with Aklanon and Kinaray-a, though in the same island. But Ilonggos can understand Cebuano with some degree of difficulty (Cebuano sounds more like Hiligaynon than Aklanon or Kiniray-a) and Cebuanos understand Hiligaynon with less degree of difficulty. Take that from a Cebuana classmate of mine who speaks only Cebuano and Tagalog. She can really understand Hiligaynon. I asked her about this and she said Hiligaynon sounds a lot like Cebuano. This lead me to conclude that Cebuano and Hiligaynon had a common ancestral language while this ancestral language share another common ancestral language with Aklanon and Kinaray-a.--112.202.101.127 (talk) 09:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Kinaray-a Test Wikipedia

Please vote for our Wikipedia! --203.173.138.159 08:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi crush kita 49.145.105.72 (talk) 10:56, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

I am in support of the Kinaray-a Wiki since I am a Karay-a myself. The concerns in the discussion here, however, need to be thoroughly thought of. --emanlerona 13:38, 21 March 2006

Good News!

The request for Hiligaynon Wikipedia has now been verified as eligible

This means that after these 1732 interface messages have been translated into Gheg, then the Test-project will qualify for Final Approval. To translate those system messages, follow these steps. --Jose77 (talk) 09:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Kinaray-a Etymology

I have to ask this: the iraya-ilawud-ilig explanation for the roots of Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon seems sensible. But has there really been a comprehensive and definitive study done about this? Just recently, I came to a realization that the shift from iraya to Karay-a or Kinaray-a seems to evade a sensibe explanation. Iraya to iniraya would be very natural in terms of construction, but not one speaker of the language calls the language that, although Ilonggo scholars like Mulato, Norada, and Deriada claim that Iniraya/Hiniraya are also used. Is there anyone here who knows that someone (an insider) really uses this term? Also, the glottal stop in the word also seems to escape some explanation. Does anyone know any other Kinaray-a word that has undergone the same transformation? *iraya -> iray-a? If there is none, then I suggest that we begin to doubt the scientificity of this explanation. --emanlerona 13:38, 21 March 2006

Until this days, hiniraya/kiniray-a is still being studied together with hiligaynon/ilonggo since both dialects shares a lot in vocabulary(about 95%)and is speculated as the subdialect of the latter. As of hiniraya, it is intrigued like hiligaynon for its spelling since it has at least three to four inflected forms the people would commonly use(e.g. karay-a, kinaray-a, kiniray-a, hiniraya). HOwever, having the knowledge of inflections of Visayan language would likely get oneself questioning. with the root word "Iraya"(Ilaya, hiligaynon counterpart) which means 'mountain', plus "hin" or sometimes "In" affix(or sometimes an infix)which when inflected to a word would result one such a modifying word. However, since the Hiniraya shares different stressing from Hiligaynon, the "hin" as an affix would turn into "kin". thus, in books especially dictionaries, "hin" version of HIligaynon is rather being used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Likum (talk • contribs) 11:07, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Kinaray-a Spelling & Pronunciation

Hi, everyone. Just discovered how to add to the Discussion page. This is the first wiki I have ever contributed in. YAY!

If there's a standard for Kinaray-a spelling, I believe it needs improvement, as the 26-letter Roman alphabet just won't do.

Anyway, regarding the book mentioned in this article...

One will NEVER hear "BOkid" in Panay - it's "BUkid". It's the same with "kaOna" - it's "Ka-Una"... "POro" should be spelled "PUro" or "PUru"... but if the quote is from the book... well I guess it's just the deficiencies of the Roman alphabet, which is why I propose the use of IPA.

I am not a linguist, but the use of the 26-letter alphabet is simply insufficient - and people unfamiliar with the language will surely get the pronunciation wrong. For example there's a schwa vowel sound that's often spelled with a "u" - which is wrong if you think about it, because there's also a "u" sound in kinaray-a that sounds like a short "oo" - as in BUkid.

Let's at least start with the schwa (Ə, ə) - not that's not an anime emoticon - it's the capital and lower-case schwa (^^). This schwa sound is similar to the Japanese one - "Goju" is pronounced GO JƏ - so it should be GO JƏ RLYƏ not GO YOU RYOO (the Japanese "R" is actually something like "RL" with a "D" somewhere in the "RL" sound; the word commonly spelled as "jujitsu"/"jujutsu", is actually pronounced JəJƏTsə - NOT jooJITsoo. I typed the previous sentence because the words are better-known worldwide for those who aren't familiar with Kinaray-a

Anyway, back to Kinaray-a, particularly the vowels. How about the following?

A E I O U Ə

All are phonetic and pronounced as they are spelled. Think of them as Spanish vowels (except for the schwa). The "O" sound is uncommon - mostly used only in other Filipino (particularly Tagalog), derived, and foreign words. In the Western visayas, most words spelled with an "o" are usually pronounced as "u" / short "oo", and "e" as "i" / short "ee", which is why when most Visayans say English words like "West", you'll hear "WIST"... similar to the New Zealanders - except that they have a longer vowel - like "WEEST".

Let's try to create a standard for the spelling. I will try to get my relatives and friends to contribute here as well.

Sedotes (talk) 01:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for Kinaray-a Spelling

I believe that the existing writing system of Filipino languages (in fact - ALL languages written in Roman characters) is lacking. So here's where we input our recommendations on spelling/typing words. Maybe we can make a new, more accurate standard for the writing of Kinaray-a through this wiki.

Rules: edit your own entries and leave entries of other authors intact - just inform them of your suggestions below the relevant line or, discuss until you come to a consensus, then strike out or delete relevant lines.

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Here are mine for the moment:

For vowels, use accented characters for the relevant words. Capitalize the syllables to be stressed (and/or type them in bold and/or italics). This will aid in pronunciation. For example: "waRÂ" ("nothing"/"none"), "MAYhâ" ("shy") which has a (glottal?) stop.
So which of these do we go for?
waRÂ
waRÂ
waRÂ
waRÂ

Use hyphens for words like "kaMA-an" ("know"), "bə-ƏL" ("get), "hiMU-a" ("make"/"do"), "sin-U"/"sin-O" ("who"), "di-IN" ("where), "gin-ƏT" ("hot")etc. so that pronunciation will be as accurate as possible.

Try to discriminate between the "u" sound and the "ə" sound. If they ARE interchangeable in your Kinaray-a dialect, state so.

Kinaray-a, Karay-a language

I don't know much about Kinaray-a so I might be wrong, but shouldn't this article be titled simply "Kinaray-a" instead, or "Karay-a/Hiraya language"? As far as I know, the infix -in already indicates that the word it's inserted to pertains to a language, making the current title somewhat redundant.

What do you think? --Pare Mo (talk) 10:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

• Requested a move of article title from Karay-a language to Kinaray-a language to emphasize the language and ethnicity. This is, however, upon distinction of the two concepts within Wikipedia as both "Kinaray-a" and "Karay-a" are used to refer to the language in actual practice. Nonetheless, "language" should still be part of the title as per preferred language article titling on Wikipedia. --Pansitkanton (talk) 17:37, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Question. @Pare Mo, @Pansitkanton Why is it that this particular Visayan language is called or titled in WP in the local manner (with the infix in) when all the rest of our Visayan language articles have titles that are "language-neutral"? For example, we don't call Waray language by its local name Winaray. The same goes for Cebuano language (not Sinugbuanon), Boholano language (not Binol-anon), Masbateño language (not Minasbate), Onhan language (not Inonhan), etc. I understand it follows Visayan word structure but do we really (as non-Visayans) have to know or follow all this? Ilocanos call their language Iluko, but we just know it as Ilocano language. --RioHondo (talk) 04:37, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Response. @RioHondo, it's not necessary to use the endonym to all Philippine languages or specifically those in the Visayan branches. It's just that out of practice, Kinaray-a became the more commonly-used name for the language in both local and foreign academic discourse disregarding whether you're Visayan or not. Notice that the likes of Hiligaynon and Aklanon, with the -non/-on inflection, are endonymic and also the formal and scholarly names of the languages. --Pansitkanton (talk) 05:10, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, the native forms for Hiligaynon and Aklanon languages follow standard language naming convention in that those language names are identical with their ethnonyms as with all other Philippine languages, where Hiligaynon or Aklanon may refer to both the language (Hiligaynon language/Aklanon language) and speakers of the language (Hiligaynon people/Aklanon people), just like Waray (Waray language/Waray people), Cebuano (Cebuano language/Cebuano people), Butuanon (Butuanon language/Butuanon people), Porohanon (Porohanon language/Porohanon people) and even non-Visayan language-people like Kapampangan (Kapampangan language/Kapampangan people) and Tagalog (Tagalog language/Tagalog people). It appears then that Kinaray-a language is a deviation from this language name standard in that the language is called differently from its ethnic group speakers (Karay-a people), a first for Philippine language articles. As per wiki practice (see WP:NCLANG), we use a common (base/root) title for the language and people based on the native term when the names involve different prefixes or are otherwise not transparently related, with redirects placed at their native terms. (E.g, Tswana language and Tswana people with redirects from Setswana, the native language name and Batswana, the native ethnonym.) Even Akeanon and Inakeanon language redirect to Aklanon language so that it follows the standard naming convention for pairs of languages and ethnic groups (at Aklanon). Can you name one Philippine language/ethnic group where you have two different names for their language and themselves?--RioHondo (talk) 06:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

My point of contention does not revolve around the language name and whether it takes the ethnonym. I am fully aware of WP's "general" practice regarding that matter. I am only asking if it is possible to consider the widely-used terminology of the language irrespective of what the ethnic name of its speakers is. This is to maintain uniformity with naming conventions used by established linguistic research institutes. As for another Philippine language, you have Chavacano spoken by the Zamboangueño people. Malayalam is spoken by the Malayali people. Same goes for Kinyarwanda spoken by the Hutu, Tutsi people of Rwanda and Burundi. Burmese is spoken by the Bamar people --Pansitkanton (talk) 07:09, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, Chavacano is a Spanish Creole language spoken by multiple ethnicities. Apart from the Zamboangueño people, it is also spoken by Caviteño / Ternateño people, Sama-Bajau peoples, Subanon people, Yakan people, and other ethnicities in the Zamboanga Peninsula and parts of Sulu Archipelago including Basilan where it has become the lingua franca. (i.e, there is no such thing as Chavacano people nor Filipino Spanish creole people.) I can't comment on other countries languages for now though, will have to study them first. As for Kinaray-a, there is such a thing here called WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, and you have my support for making it the primary redirect to the Karay-a language.--RioHondo (talk) 07:33, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I believe Kinaray-a language only directs to Karay-a language article and already is a primary redirect. I rest my case. I'm simply splitting hairs and asking for something to be done just because I think it can be done. Karay-a it is, then. --Pansitkanton (talk) 16:16, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Reverted the "uncontroversial" move as it was not uncontroversial. We just discussed this a couple months ago. If we want it moved to "Kinaray-a language", there should be a new discussion and consensus to do so.

Both Karay-a and Kinaray-a are common, but the former follows the general WP practice of using the same root for the people and their language. — kwami (talk) 05:50, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Agree, this should have gone through proper RM discussion.--RioHondo (talk) 06:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Apologies for not bringing this topic on the talk page prior to requesting a move.--Pansitkanton (talk) 07:13, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Visayan languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:44, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 27 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 14:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

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Kinaray-a language → Kinaray-a – WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, WP:COMMONNAME,WP:CONCISE, WP:NCLANG states that if the ethnicity article has a different title then the "language" suffix can be dropped. Kinaray-a redirects here. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 05:24, 27 July 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 05:41, 3 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Alakzi (talk) 00:53, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Oppose. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. The present title makes it clear just what kind of an article it is and what it is talking about. Let's make things easier for the reader. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 05:47, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

• What's the logic in that? The shorter name is much more concise. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 06:20, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. The language shares the same name as the people as per the Philippine Statistics Authority 1 2, where Kinaray-a is a local alternative name for Karay-a, similar to Winaray and Waray, Binisaya and Bisaya, Binolanon and Boholano/Bol-anon, and others in the same (Visayan) language group. Our language names have to be standardized in English and not in the local vernacular.--RioHondo (talk) 13:44, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. If the name is also used for the ethnicity, then it violates WP:NCLANG. --Taivo (talk) 00:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Comment. All Philippine languages are named after their ethnic group, save for Chavacano, a Spanish creole language and the only non-indigenous/non-Austronesian Philippine language spoken by different groups in Mindanao and also Luzon.--RioHondo (talk) 01:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose the current title is not ambiguous per WP:PRECISE. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Dito kami sa antique

Ri ja kami antique 175.176.79.20 (talk) 15:24, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Tularan

Tularan 2001:4454:4C2:7E00:E886:A72D:3A3D:7D16 (talk) 13:23, 28 September 2022 (UTC)