Talk:Kiss×sis

Article Cleanup + Search for References and Reception Information

If anyone wants to help cleanup this article that would be great as I have already started a complete rewrite of the character descriptions. I've only read about half the manga and have yet to watch the anime. In regards to references, anyone with more knowledge of the series please add them where appropriate. Considering the highly controversial nature of KissxSis I'm sure we can scrounge up some Reception information. I'll be searching ANN when I can get to that part. Fox816 (talk) 20:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Inaccuracy / Speculation

On the last line describing the chapter 8 of the TV anime, it says: "Shocked, Miharu drops on the ground what seems to be a love letter." That is not right. By seeing the anime you can note that what she drops (and remains there on the next day) is more likely her underwear. Even if it is a paper of some sort, it is all blank, so there is no clue telling that the object would be a letter, much more a "love letter". So I am substituting the phrase by "When Keita comes back to where his sisters are, he is all beaten up." 189.60.96.128 (talk) 22:12, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Note to new editors, remember, be bold! Fox816 (talk) 06:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Reviews(s)

• ANN Spring 2010 Reviews: Christopher Macdonald, Zac Bertschy, Tim Maughan, Hope Chapman, Theron Martin, Carl Kimlinger

Cleanup

I would like to undertake the task of cleaning this article up. From my standpoint, the character descriptions are grossly long and overstated and sections contain too much information or not enough.

If no one is against this, I will commence in a few days. --Valce (talk) 23:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 2011

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Page moved to Kissxsis. Vegaswikian (talk) 05:34, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Kiss×Sis → Kiss×sis – Kiss×Sis is an inaccurate stylization of this series. The destination article I'd like it to be moved to, Kiss×sis, is empty and consists of nothing more than a redirect. As such, I do not see anything threatening or controversial besides simply swapping the pages. I also have a complete revision in place for this article to clean it up.Valce 22:10, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose; should be Kissxsis per WP:MOSTM. Powers ^T 01:56, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

How do you oppose if you wrote "should be Kissxsis"? --Valce 02:23, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Correction, I see that the × is an x. In all honesty, I could care less what "X" is used, it would make it more practical to use ASCII than a special character. It's the capital S that I don't agree with. --Valce 02:23, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:CAPS, this is a title of a work and all words except for articles, prepositions, and conjunctions shorter than 5 letters are to be capitalized. The × simply represents a space in the title much like the † in Maria†Holic represents a space. —Farix (t | c) 19:31, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
  • Are you sure it represents a space? (If it does, I agree with you that the "Sis" should be capitalized.) Several sources in the article appear to spell it "Kissxsis", as I did above. Is the "x" or "×" pronounced in any way, or is it just "Kiss Sis"? Powers ^T 23:56, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

At the moment, I agree with Powers that the cross between the words should be a lowercase X per WP:MOS, as it is improper to use special characters in titles. For the sake of stylization, it deserves to be noted in the lead (such as Ke$ha, the difference here is that a dollar sign can be produced easily). Using a special X makes the article unpractical to find outside of a series of unnecessary redirects. ASCII is a far better choice. Valce 00:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valce (talk • contribs)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 21 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) OhKayeSierra (talk) 02:23, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

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Kissxsis → Kiss×sis, List of Kissxsis chapters → List of Kiss×sis chapters, List of Kissxsis episodes → List of Kiss×sis episodes – ANN, as well as the Japanese sources in the article all use a proper multiplication sign instead of the Latin letter "x". I don't think this series was ever licensed to get any other title, nor could I find any other English reliable sources. The previous move discussion had some dubious argumentation that we don't include special characters, but that's not true at all, especially when we're trying to be typographically correct and adhere to the actual WP:COMMONAME. Opencooper (talk) 06:15, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. I think MOS:TM applies here. Neither IMDb nor YesAsia use a multiplication sign, and there is no consistant usage online with different variations used, i.e. KissXsis, Kiss x Sis, etc. PC78 (talk) 12:33, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Neither of the sources you listed are considered reliable sources on Wikipedia, while Anime News Network is considered so. Though you also chose to ignore the actual manga itself where it's clearly a multiplication sign and written as so by the publisher on its website. Regarding MOS:TM, instead of supporting your position, it seems to back the opposite: "When deciding how to format a trademark, editors should examine styles already in use by independent reliable sources...Do not invent new styles that are not used by independent reliable sources." Opencooper (talk) 01:28, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

There ought to be a more compelling argument for using a special character in the title. I'm not sure how good some of those Japanese sources are, but the general lack of reliable sources—particuarly in English—makes the "common name" argument pretty weak IMO. PC78 (talk) 06:55, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

So why are we going with this variant that isn't backed by any sources instead? "Kiss ex Sis" makes no sense because it's not actually the Latin letter "x". And for whatever genius reason, it's unspaced as if it's one mishmashed word.

Lastly, the real kicker is that it did use a proper multiplication sign previously, but the person who made the above move discussion, said: "I could care less what 'X' is used", because they only cared about the capitalization. So there's zero basis behind this variant other than another editor's oversight because they were focusing on another aspect of the title. Opencooper (talk) 21:58, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support. As per Opencooper's above arguments; the clear use of the multiplication symbol in the manga itself as well as on the publisher's website is compelling. Goszei (talk) 06:45, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
  (Original comment deleted: Replaced and struck per talk page guidelines; OP notified. Moonraker12 (talk) 23:33, 28 October 2019 (UTC))
• Oppose and Comment. I would like to bring to attention the page xxxHolic, which has solved this problem in the same way as this page. I also would like to bring to attention WP:TSC, which I believe is clear on the rule that "Symbols such as "♥", as sometimes found in advertisements or logos, should never be used in titles. Goszei (talk) 18:43, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: As the subject here seems to be some kind of soft incest-porn I'd suggest the "x" here represents a kiss, not a multiplication sign, so I'm inclined to think both this and the previous RM have missed the point. Don't we have a guideline for using special characters in titles? Moonraker12 (talk) 10:31, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 30 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 17:19, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

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Kissxsis → Kiss×sis – Per other manga articles, such as Spy × Family and Hunter × Hunter, which use the actual multiplication sign. —ÐW-🇺🇦^(T·C) 01:28, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

• Comment I think all of those should be moved to get rid of the × per MOS:TM avoid macy^★s avoid special characters. "×" should be replaced with an "x" -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 02:59, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

"Kissxsis" could just be a redirect. Also, the multiplication sign appears to be an exception. —ÐW-🇺🇦^(T·C) 16:38, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

• Support As in the previous discussion, people are misunderstanding what MOS:TM is saying. It's not saying don't use Unicode characters when actually appropriate. It's talking about things like putting a heart in place of a random character to be flashy or an exclamation point instead of an "i". In the case of these "×" titles, that's not a letter "ex", but a multiplication sign, used in cases like people collaborating or facing off against each other. It's not there as some fancy styling of the letter "ex". Opencooper (talk) 18:31, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! —ÐW-🇺🇦^(T·C) 02:04, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

• Reluctant support: In this title, the "×" is not merely functioning as a decorative substitute for the letter "x" – instead it is expressing a relationship or action or interaction. "Kiss" and "sis" are functioning as two separate words with this interaction symbol between them. Something like Kiss × sis or KissXsis or Kiss✕sis might be better (looking at independent sources might help, if enough of those exist), but the proposal is an improvement over the current name. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 13:29, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

I see some editors suggesting above to use "Sis" rather than "sis". That might be worth considering, but it looks like the sources don't do that (or at least the vast majority do not). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.