Talk:LGBTQ rights in Africa

Neutrality

THIS IS NOT A NEUTRAL ARTICLE.

For a start, it is written from the point of view of Americans who think they are entitled to go to a foreign country and impose their own ideology there. It has no respect for the local cultures or traditions. Who says that homosexual marriage or adoption is a right, anyway? Why should it be? Heterosexuals invented marriage, and that gives them in my view a logical right to define it. So the ancient Romans practised sodomy - big deal, they also practiced slavery, ruthless colonization and the oppression of women. Would you like it if a foreigner came to your country and tried to overturn your traditions by campaigning for the legalization of child marriage, or sex with animals? The attitude taken by the writer of the article is patronising towards other cultures and blind to the potential problems that importing homosexual practices will bring i.e. higher rates of child-molestation and venereal disease. Homosexual men are attracted to under-age boys and are typically very promiscuous. Can you deny that there are rich American gays going on sex-holidays to third-world countries? These practices pose severe problems. If the article were really neutral, it would be written by an African and would point out the dangers of a foreign, decadent way of life undermining their own values and traditions. Finally, the article contains spelling mistakes e.g. "Epitamy" for epitome. Saldezza (talk) 15:38, 3 January 2010 (UTC)Saldezza.

It is a statement of the situation in each country. Philip Cross (talk) 17:44, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

While imperialism is a problem, do you have proof that homosexuality did not exist in Africa prior to the arrival of Westerners? Various sources assert that condemnation of homosexuality in Africa was originally a Western imperialist import which has now been claimed by (some) Africans as their own. For one example that mentions this idea, see Kevin Williams, “AIDS stories covered up,” Media Development 4 (1992): 9-10. Almost all regressive child molesters are men who identify as heterosexual, and fixated child molesters are only attracted to children but apparently will molest whatever children they have access to, regardless of whether they are boys or girls (see the Southern Poverty Law Center's "Ten Anti-Gay Myths Debunked"). American sex tourists are not limited to one gender or sexual orientation. Both women and men, heterosexual as well as homosexual, participate in sex tourism. While both Africans and Westerners can write the article in a minimally biased manner, the way you envision an African writing this article is quite one-sided and far from neutral.

I had originally started writing on the talk page to apologize for forgetting to uncheck the 'minor edit' box when I added to the sentence about the legality of lesbian relations, so I'm sorry about that! Midwest1.9 (talk) 21:52, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The English invented the language your using , what gives you the right to use it to be a bigot? and most of the reasons for most of the harsh penaltys for homosexuality in Africa come from outside religions (Islam and Christianity) so why are you not bitching about those, because they have done FAR more damage to African culture then Americans saying how stoning gay Africans to death is immoral Eboda (talk) 02:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

How can anything be said to be illegal in Somalia. They have no functioning government, so they have no laws. Does "illegal" in this context just mean that the armed bandits that fight for control of Somalia tend to execute homosexuals?35.11.169.86 (talk) 08:33, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

The arguments made by Saldezza (above) are too much to be believed. Heterosexuals "invented" marriage?!? Foreigners campaigning for sex with animals?!? Gay sex-holidays in third-world countries?!? Homosexuality = pedophilia?!? Science, fact and history don't support this writer's ridiculous assertions, whose goal is to dehumanize and vilify LGBT people. But Saldezza has accomplished one thing: By bringing bigotry into the light of day, s/he reveals just how ludicrous it is. Branmuffin22 (talk) 21:42, 22 January 2014 (UTC)branmuffin22

Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

<ref>"Tolerance and Tension: Islam and Christianity in Sub-Saharan Africa". The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. Pew Research Center. April 15, 2010. Retrieved 2010-11-29.</ref>

Q85i.

http://features.pewforum.org/africa/question.php?q=16

Next, I'm going to read some behaviors. For each, please tell me whether you personally believe that it is morally acceptable, morally wrong, or is it not a moral issue? Homosexual behavior.

Country	morally wrong	morally acceptable or not a moral issue	depends or no opinion
Botswana	83	9	8
Cameroon	98	2	0
Chad	91	7	3
Djibouti	79	16	5
DR Congo	83	8	8
Ethiopia	96	3	0
Ghana	96	3	1
Guinea Bissau	69	24	8
Kenya	98	2	0
Liberia	90	8	2
Mali	91	7	2
Mozambique	80	17	4
Nigeria	95	4	1
Rwanda	89	10	1
Senegal	89	11	0
South Africa	86	9	5
Tanzania	91	7	2
Uganda	79	16	4
Zambia	98	2	1

Figures may not add to 100% due to rounding.

--Kevinkor2 (talk) 03:19, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I don’t believe this table. Recent figures on public opinion including Ibrahim index shows 67% of SA are ok with it, 55% of Namibians, 73% of Cape Verdians, 61% of Angolans, 56% of Mozambicans, 14% of Kenyans, 21% of Tanzanians Nlivataye (talk) 17:44, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Southern Sudan in the map

Southern Sudan has a separate legal code from the rest of Sudan. Other maps show the difference between the north (execution) and the south (large penalty). The map should be changed. Here is an example of a more accurate map showing Southern Sudan -

File:World homosexuality laws.svg Thanks.

Benin on the map / LGTB-rights and the diverging colonial traditions

In the written list Benin is correctly referred to as a country where same sex activity is legal, on the map, however, it is marked orange (severe penalty). The map needs updating: For a long time Benin was listed among those countries with sodomy laws; however, this was based on an error. The source cited was a publication of the "Université du Benin", which has its name from the geographical notion Benin (covering the whole region like in "gulf of Benin") and is acutally situated in Togo. The penal code referred to in this publicaiton of 1990ies is the togolese penal code. In Benin, however, the penal code is still the colonial "code Bouvenet" of 1877 (http://www.fluechtlingshilfe.ch/herkunftslaender/africa/benin/benin-situation-von-homosexuellen; cf. also the latest ILGA-report).

The correction of the map would be important, since the map clearly shows that most African countries until today more or less follow the legislation of their colonial powers as it was in 1958-1960 when most of these colonies became independent states. France and Belgium had abolished sodomy laws in the early 19th century already, so the former French colonies until today have maintained legal impunity for same sex activities among adults, whereas the former British colonies (with the recent exception of South Africa) have maintained or even reenforced the sodomy laws of the British tradition. The case of Portugal and Spain being more complicated, since those countries had abolished sodomy laws in the 19th century, but later introduced severe, penalty-like measures of correction against those who "habitually perform acts against nature". The only countries of the former French colonial Empire that later introduced sodomy laws are (a) the Maghreb countries (as a part of the muslim-arab world)and the predominantly muslim countries along the West-African coast (Mauretania, Senegal, Guinea); (b) the former German colonies Togo and Cameroon. Even though the French penal code was introduced here in 1924, the French colonisation period obviously was too short to completely eleminate the influence of German colonisation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.208.43.99 (talk) 13:10, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

France was the one that legalized homosexuality in 1790 as for Spain and Portugal it was during the 1980's Nlivataye (talk) 16:54, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Map is incorrect

Same sex relations do not carry a penalty in Mozambique. After South Africa, Mozambique is the most liberal country towards Gay people. The only thing Gays cannot do yet is same sex marriage(but there are ongoing calls for it). Admittedly the stance towards transgender issues is neither here nor there: while not illegal, there are no specific laws protecting Transgender people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.89.0 (talk) 20:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I've changed the map, particularly since the article itself already says that homosexuality is legal. - htonl (talk) 21:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Table headers

You may be interested in the discussion at Talk:LGBT rights by country or territory#Consistency of table headings across the continents regarding the column headers of the tables included in this article. - htonl (talk) 19:23, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Links

]>> African gay laws criticised by UK archbishops (Lihaas (talk) 16:29, 31 January 2014 (UTC)).

map key is wrong

map has yellow, map key doesn't mention yellow — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.203.30 (talk) 23:49, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in LGBT rights in Africa

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of LGBT rights in Africa's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ILGA 2013":

• From LGBT rights in Benin: State-sponsored Homophobia A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults
• From LGBT rights in Mauritius: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults", International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association, authored by Lucas Paoli Itaborahy and Jingshu Zhu, May 2013, page 51
• From LGBT rights in Mozambique: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults" (PDF). International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA).
• From LGBT rights in Togo: Itaborahy, Lucas Paoli (May 2013). "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults" (PDF). The International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association. Retrieved 3 June 2013.
• From LGBT rights in Equatorial Guinea: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults" (PDF).
• From LGBT rights in the Central African Republic: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults", International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association, authored by Lucas Paoli Itaborahy and Jingshu Zhu, May 2013, page 20

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 05:17, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Owen 'Alik Shahadah

A discussion thread about the reliability and notability of this author and his pages is taking place at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Owen 'Alik Shahadah, please comment there so we can get a final consensus. Rupert Loup (talk) 12:06, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

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Update to map

Homosexuality is illegal in Chad, but this is not represented on the map in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.210.183 (talk) 22:51, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Chad

Chad should be coloured orange, since a law passed in 2016 criminalising sodomy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.210.183 (talk) 16:27, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

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WP:EL is not a place for only one point of view, i.e. in this case a collection of Pro-Gay websites. Africans in general are not pro-gay so why is only pro-gay websites listed here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.0.4.194 (talk) 17:21, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

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Maps

Angola and Botswana has new laws that recognize same sex couples and protects them so it’s not just legal Nlivataye (talk) 17:45, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned references in LGBT rights in Africa

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of LGBT rights in Africa's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ILGA 2012":

• From LGBT rights in the Republic of the Congo: Ottosson, Daniel (May 2008). "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults" (PDF). International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA). p. 45. Archived from the original (PDF) on 11 June 2012. Retrieved 5 May 2009.
• From LGBT rights in Gabon: "State-Sponsored Homophobia" (PDF). ILGA. May 2012. Archived from the original (PDF) on December 21, 2012. Retrieved May 3, 2021.
• From LGBT rights in the Comoros: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults" (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 11 June 2012.
• From LGBT rights in Ethiopia: Itaborahy, Lucas Paoli (May 2012). "State Sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws criminalising same-sex sexual acts between consenting adults" (PDF). The International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association. Archived from the original (PDF) on 17 October 2012. Retrieved May 9, 2021.
• From LGBT rights in Seychelles: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults", International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association, authored by Lucas Paoli Itaborahy, May 2012 Archived 21 December 2012 at WebCite
• From LGBT rights in Botswana: State-sponsored Homophobia A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults Archived 17 October 2012 at the Wayback Machine
• From LGBT rights in Mali: "State-sponsored Homophobia: A world survey of laws prohibiting same sex activity between consenting adults", International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association, authored by Lucas Paoli Itaborahy, May 2012, p. 12 Archived 21 December 2012 at WebCite

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 02:30, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Contemporary Africa Group 8

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