Talk:Lake Shore Boulevard

Naming conventions

Discussion at Talk:List of roads in Toronto, Ontario Eco84 | Talk 00:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Lake Shore vs Lakeshore

The article states "According to the street classification index and map, the correct spelling is "Lakeshore Boulevard"" yet this is only true for the map. The Road Classification System - Street Name Index states the spelling as Lake Shore Blvd, contradicting the map. It is my belief that the map, and the odd street sign use the common misspelling, and the index is the more trustworthy source. In addition, all modern signage states the name as Lake Shore Blvd, as well as Google Maps, Bing Maps, and Yahoo Maps.

08:00, 25 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unfinite (talk • contribs)

I am in agreement with Unfinite. I have lived along this street for five years and in Toronto for many more. Despite some signing errors, the street's official name is "Lake Shore Boulevard". Please correct the page's name to reflect this.

--Wikier99 (talk) 23:04, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Both the 1924 and 1959 bylaws, which changed the name of the road on legal documents, state "LAKESHORE BOULEVARD". The sources should be updated, but the road is definitely Lakeshore, as it is a continuation of the original road that existed as far east as the Humber in 1900. Numerous historical maps show Lakeshore Road and Lakeshore Boulevard, but the bylaws are official documents. Internet maps are not reliable sources, and modern documents are contradictory at best. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 23:27, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad that you have researched this so extensively. I'm curious why you have withheld that fact until now, though, when previous edits (one by a user who seems to be based in Connecticut) have depended purely on Internet searches and an unrepresentative sample of two adjacent signs that use alternative forms. I'm basing my opinion on the much larger sample of street signage that separates "Lake" and "Shore", as well as (paper) maps of the city in common use for years and the multitude of modern City of Toronto documents referring to "Lake Shore Boulevard". I would be interested to see the original name change if you can provide a copy of the document. --Wikier99 (talk) 01:43, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely. I got those the one time I didn't take a camera (wrote it on a sheet of paper), but next time I'm at the archives I'd be happy to photograph the documents and post them. I didn't update the sources because I intend to redirect the article to a list I'm making which documents all of the street name origins for the city.

I haven't found the bylaw that changed the planned "Boulevard" (see File:Toronto and Suburbs, 1916.jpg, it was planned to run along the Islands) to Lakeshore Boulevard, but these laws were extending it from its then eastern terminus at Sunnyside. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 01:52, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Sswonk (talk) 17:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

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Lakeshore Boulevard → Lake Shore Boulevard — The street's actual name, notwithstanding errors by City of Toronto employees on some materials, is "Lake Shore Boulevard". Wikipedia users who are unfamiliar with Toronto have erroneously assumed that the street's name is "Lakeshore". --Wikier99 (talk) 23:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

oppose I made the change, and I am very familiar with Toronto and have extensively researched the street name origins of the city. The council minutes for the City of Toronto are available at the archives. Volume B contains the bylaws passed for that particular year. The 1924 bylaw, which changed the names of several Parkdale streets that were engulfed by Lakeshore Boulevard, and the 1959 bylaw, which extended it along Fleet and Keating Streets and divided it into east and west, use "LAKESHORE BOULEVARD". - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 23:31, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Official designations mean little; more important is what is in common use. And it appears (from earlier discussions on this page) that the two-word version is more common at this time. Powers ^T 00:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

So should Highway 401 be move to The 401? Common usage only holds so much weight when it comes down to a designation. It doesn't change the fact that the common usage is the incorrect usage, and the intro line would still need to be Lakeshore Boulevard, commonly misspelt as Lake Shore Boulevard, despite its official designation, is a... - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 00:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Google Maps doesn't use "The 401". Powers ^T 01:31, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Right, I forgot that most reliable of sources. The one that says Yonge Street through York Region is Highway 11, and that Kingston Road through Toronto is 'County Road 2'. Yeah. Let's rely on Google Maps for our article titles. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:11, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It's an indication of common use, one of the better ones we have available at the moment. Feel free to provide some documentation that contradicts it. Powers ^T 13:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

No, Google maps is not a reliable source for anything other than proving the physical location of something. I've spent hours sending corrections into Google Maps. Seeing little dirt roads out in the country side erroneously tagged as part of the Trans-Canada Highway.

Here is a guide made by York University for incoming exchange students which explains some common Toronto vernacular. Amongst them is "401 | The Four-Oh-One: highway between Windsor and the Ontario / Québec border"

Note that I'm not seriously advocating that move. I'm just saying you're showing me a rock and telling me it keeps tigers away. I can find a plethora of sources that use both Lake Shore and Lakeshore. I can also point out that its an extension of the original route in Mississauga, which is also Lakeshore. You're basing your common name on what you believe, and on street signs (which once again, contradict each other quite regularily) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I have no pre-established belief on this topic; I've never paid any attention to how the boulevard is spelled, if I've even ever been on it. I based my recommendation solely on the discussion above that indicates the spaced version is in wider use. If you have sources that indicate otherwise, please do provide them. Powers ^T 19:51, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I've provided several that indicate it was officially named Lakeshore, and can dig up plenty to show that today, both uses are common. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Names change, what the city called it in 1924 is irrelevant, the street signs today say "Lake Shore." - SimonP (talk) 21:48, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

The picture in the article makes it apparent that they also use Lakeshore. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 21:50, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps on older signs? The newer ones all seem to have Lake Shore. e.g. [1] and [2] Might have been one of those things that changed with amalgamation. - SimonP (talk) 21:53, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

• Support and request speedy close: I decided to investigate this before commenting and found most maps including Canadian Geographic's Canadian Atlas Online and official Ontario Ministry of Transportation maps use "Lake Shore". However, those facts are not as official as what follows. One of my search queries resulted in a link to http://www.toronto.ca/mapping/street_naming/, the official city Survey and Mapping Services web page, including a link to a contact email address. I emailed the staff regarding their official names of the streets. In my request for a response which would indicate the official name, I included a link to this discussion, so the staff were very clearly aware of what I was asking, that is whether the street names are one or two words. Here is the response, which I can forward directly to any reader who needs to see the header information for confirmation, simply email me and I will forward the email:

(Salutation redacted)

The official street names are:

Lake Shore Boulevard East (east of Yonge Street)
Lake Shore Boulevard West (west of Yonge Street)

Named by Metropolitan Toronto By-law 1031, passed August 25, 1959.

Brian Hall
City of Toronto
Technical Services
Survey and Mapping Services

416-338-5034

I obviously can't explain why the 1959 archive documents Floydian found used the single word. They may have simply been mistyped or the minutes incorrectly recorded. The email contradicts the information given by Floydian above, but it is current and directly from the authority responsible for the names of the streets. Based on this result, I believe the discussion can be closed and the article moved back to its correct title, with the first sentence corrected to remove mention of a misspelling. Lake Shore is correct and official. Sswonk (talk) 09:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

On what grounds do you request a speedy close? Powers ^T 13:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The City of Toronto department of Survey and Mapping Services read this section and responded to my inquiry that the official name of the streets begins "Lake Shore". The only opposition to the requested move is from Floydian, whose basis for his opposition consists of evidence of signage, which may have been produced by contractors who made a mistake, and two documents he found in city archives, the newest of which is from 1959. The Survey and Mapping Services email cites the bylaw as naming the east and west streets "Lake Shore", despite whatever typesetting is found on the document in the archives. Sphilbrick (talk · contribs) moved the page on December 29, 2010 and before that it was at "Lake Shore Boulevard" for over two years; prior to that it was at "Lake Shore Boulevard (Toronto)" for over three years. It spent its first seven months at "Lakeshore Boulevard (Toronto)". So the article has been in existence almost six years, and in only eight months of those years has it had the one word title in any form. Further, the map which Sphilbrick cited for the move in his edit summary, http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/road_class/pdf/city-wide_map.pdf, has the name clearly written as "LAKE SHORE BV E" at position T20 in the inset map at lower right. I can't find a reason to want to burden an admin with any more discussion than is necessary here, so I have pointed this section out to Sphilbrick in hopes he will simply undo his move in view of the weight of evidence, and close speedily here. Sswonk (talk) 16:22, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Someone's definitely done their research. Lets move this bad-boy back. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

 Done (Nice work)--SPhilbrickT 16:37, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

When did the designation from 'Road' to 'Boulevard' take place?

Referring to the Etobicoke section.Transportfan70 (talk) 17:17, 23 March 2017 (UTC)