Talk:Leslie Hore-Belisha

Birthplace

The article states Hore-Belisha's birthplace was Hampstead, but then refers to his unsuccessful 1922 election candidacy in "his birthplace constituency of Plymouth Devonport". The Wikipedia article on Devonport also lists Hore-Belisha as being born there.

Abyssinia

Did he not have a proposal to appease Mussolini, who had attacked that country? There is nothing about it in the article 86.161.124.244 (talk) 19:38, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes. The Hore-Laval proposal in Dec '35. There is a wiki article about it, but there should be something here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.124.244 (talk) 19:41, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

That was the Foreign Secretary Samuel Hoare. Different person.Paulturtle (talk) 04:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

1950 candidacy in Croydon

"He fought unsuccessfully in Croydon South in 1950"

I don't think this is right. For the 1950 and 1951 elections there was no Croydon South seat and Hore-Belisha does not feature in the election records for any Croydon seat or indeed for Surrey East at that time. The Conservatives won all four seats anyway, so he would not have lost. Perhaps this refers to an internal selection, rather than the election itself. Mtiedemann 12:13, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The DNB claims it was Coventry South but I haven't got any results to hand to check if he was a candidate or not. Timrollpickering 14:16, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Sacking

This article strikes me as rather POV and there's quite some controversy about the circumstances of his downfall. I don't think the blame for his downfall lies with the King and anti-semitism, rather than with Hore-Belisha's very poor relations with the Chief of the General Staff (they mutually lost confidence in each other) and abrasive personality (meetings of the War Cabinet were often tense) which made him enemies. The impetus to make changes originated with Downing Street not the Palace - had the Palace really been against him over the abdication he would never have been considered for Minister of Information and, when it was argued that appointing a Jew to that post would make it hard to fight an anti-semitic regime, the President of the Board of Trade.

At the time the country anmd many MPs were left confused - many saw Hore-Belisha as a radical popularising army reformer in the mould of Haldane and saw him as the victim of the Colonel Blimps but they were left further confused by his resignation statement.

Does anyone have much of the case to the contrary as I don't want to start rewriting the article and risk a revert war on a disputed matter. Timrollpickering 12:39, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I am following this up by requesting citations. The "Pillbox Affair" article makes no mention of this, instead explaining "Gort disliked Hore-Belisha for his colourful personality and unorthodox manner of conducting matters relating to the Army, and the Minister rapidly came to recognize this," citing the explanation with a reliable source. Given the aforementioned, the significance of the allegations (reasons for an historical political scandal, allegations against Gort et al, etc.) I think requesting citations is the gentlest I could address this, as my reading of "when not to use the 'citation needed' template" makes me think I should be deleting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.134.57 (talk) 23:55, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

"Belisha"

• What is Belisha? Show me the origin of this word. --Sheynhertz_געשׁ״ך 01:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I was always told that the family's name was originally "Horeb Elisha" and it was changed in response anti-semitic attitudes to that name. (c.f. Benjamin Disraeli.) However, that is only hearsay, and I see that the tale is told the other way round (Horeb Elisha used as anti-semitic pun) in the article, so it may have been that the name change story was in itself a slur. Rachel Pearce (talk) 12:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts for the future direction of this article

A few things on reading it - first, the charming little ditty included should have a cited source, and perhaps calling it 'popular' needs to be qualified/cited.

Second - there is scholarly work concerning the dismissal that could make the explanation of it a bit more authoritative. The 'ambient' antisemitism on the part of H-B's caucus colleagues in the Conservative Party should certainly be noted, but it was a very specific intrigue by Gort and Ironside that saw him removed, the "Bill-box" affair. Gort, as this article mentions already, had disliked Hore-Belisha immensely, in spite of owing his (unlikely) promotion to CIGS to him. This continued when Gort was (again, improbably) made C in C of the BEF, with Ironside promoted to replace him as CIGS.

When Hore-Belisha went on an inspection tour and later complained about the construction rate of pillboxes Gort took it in the worst way possible and Pownall (his chief of staff) and Ironside were both convinced of Gorts' (rather dubious) notion that Hore-Belisha was out to get him and an unacceptable meddler. (Both Gort and Ironside had antisemitism issues.) Gort was well connected with the King, which was probably more significant than Hore-Belisha's being associated with Edward in the abdication crisis. Gort, Ironside and the King successfully got Hore-Belisha sacked, for all that there were other political explanations offered. Ironside, who had seen him as not being all bad, expressed some regret, but not so Gort.

I've been doing some 1940 research for a paper and culled this from a lot of sources, but particularly Brian Bond's two chapters on Ironside and Gort from "Churchill's Generals." I'm not -quite- sure yet if there is a historical consensus on Hore-Belisha's effectiveness. Many of the failings of British military preparation were well out of his hands and he had something of an impossible task; on the other hand, just 'doubling' the territorial army at the last minute has been interpreted as an overly ambitious attempt to be a new Kitchener.

Certainly, Gort and Ironside were quite unreasonable (and influenced by prejudices) in their intrigue against him; and neither Gort nor Ironside were very well suited for the jobs they were doing at the time. Hope this is helpful to anyone taking a look at altering this article 142.167.162.83 21:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism alleged

Elsewhere article demonstrates existence of British upper-class Anti-Semitism and fact that Hore-Belisha was Jewish. That justifies deluding the "alleged".

Peter.zimmerman1 (talk) 03:35, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Something odd on this page. Searching for him in Google the summary panel on the right has Spouse: Cynthia Elliott (m. 1945), Jacqueline Delubac (m. 1940) Movies: The Eternal Jew Previous offices: British Secretary of State for War (1937–1940) ieMovies: The Eternal Jew is visible there, but not on the page.

As for British upper-class Anti-Semitism see: 'Chamberlain resolved to move Hore-Belisha, and the need to re-organise the struggling Ministry of Information seemed to offer the perfect opportunity for this. Whether Horc-Bclisha would have accepted a new job as Minister of Information, a position which did not hold War Cabinet rank and might therefore be considered a demotion, is open to question. That the offer was never made was due to pressure from Lord Halifax. ‘I do a little doubt’, the Foreign Secretary had written to Chamberlain, ‘whether L.H.B. is quite big enough for it’. The fact that he was Jewish also entered the equation (Cadogan noted that ‘Jew control of our propaganda would be |a] major disaster’). Instead. Horc-Belisha was offered the Board of Trade, and, despite the advice of friends and colleagues to accept, refused it.' The above is from a Birmingham, UK, PhD thesis, citing a letter from Lord Halifax to the PM 23 Dec 1939 and Sir Alexander Cadogan's diary for 1 Jan 1940

Photo

Not sure that the photo caption is correct - surely LH-B is 4th from the left, not 5th. Also, surely there is a better photo of him in the public domain, he was a cabinet minister after all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.63.211 (talk) 20:34, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

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