Talk:Il Veneto Decida

Requested move 8 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, as per WP:UE as there is no established English-language name. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:59, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

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Let Veneto Decide → Il Veneto Decida – Leaving aside the very dubious encyclopedicity of the page, the current title is an invention of the user that created the page, ie an original research. "Il Veneto Decida" cannot be directly translated into English unless it is included in a broader sentence, so the creator of the page invented a translation ("Let Veneto Decide" means "Lascia decidere il Veneto" or "Lascia che il Veneto decida"). When it is not possible to translate a name and there are no sources on an English translation, the original name should be used. Scia Della Cometa (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Sceptre (talk) 21:00, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. Il Veneto decida (extended, it would be Che il Veneto decida) is perfectly translatable into "Let/May Veneto Decide". It is almost a literal translation, thus I really do not see the point. It is far better for readers to immediately understand what the name means. --Checco (talk) 06:18, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

The italian conjunctive cannot be immediately translated into English, without inserting it into a sentence, "Let Veneto Decide" is undoubtedly an original research, because it is a wrong translation. "May Veneto Decide" is not the direct translation of the Italian name but it would decidedly be more appropriate. Between "Let Veneto Decide" and "May Veneto Decide" is surely more correct the second one, also if in these cases the original name is the preferable title.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 08:30, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

I have some doubts on your knowledge of English. "Let Veneto Decide" is an almost literal translations. While I understand some points raised here, I think that leaving complicate names in Italian is a harm to Wikipedia: readers need to get things quicker. --Checco (talk) 06:31, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

It is not necessary to have an in-depth knowledge of the English language to understand that "Let Veneto Decide" is an evident original research and that it is not a literal translation of the Italian name, it is rather a re-adapted translation (and honestly I don't think there are many readers interested in reading this page in en.wikipedia). --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 20:38, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

(So, why are you interested?) It is a literal translation, by the way. --Checco (talk) 16:16, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm interested in correcting a wrong title, rather than the page. Anyway, as I have already wrote, the literal translation of "Let Veneto Decide" is "Lascia che il Veneto Decida" (while the original name doesn't include the servant verb).--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 08:35, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

I am sorry you do not understand how English and translations work. The servant verb is implied! --Checco (talk) 06:04, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support. Not known in translation. The common name is the Italian one. Wikipedia is not in the business of making up names, even simple translations, that are not actually used in real life. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:23, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
• Support. WP:UE does not mandate that we always have to translate a topic's name into English as the page title, even if the translation gives it an original research name that is not actually seen in the real world — the rule is not that the words in the title have to be English ones, it is that the title has to reflect the name that English-language sources actually use. For some topics, English-language sources simply refer to it by its original foreign-language name (see e.g. Fidesz, Bloc Québécois) instead of translating it, and for other topics, there are few to no English-language sources at all to establish what a topic's "English name" would be — so for topics in either of those buckets, we simply leave the title at the foreign-language name and do not translate it ourselves. We use an English-language name over the original foreign-language name only if English-language reliable sources refer to it with an English-language name — if English-language sources use the foreign-language name unchanged, or if English-language sources don't exist at all so that the foreign-language sources are the only ones we have, then we leave the title at the foreign-language name and do not invent a new English name not reflected in any preexisting sources. Bearcat (talk) 15:41, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose I'd rather keep the established English language name (as used for six years without any issues), as per the preference for using English language names for political party articles.--Autospark (talk) 17:06, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
  • It may be "established" (i.e. nobody has challenged it) on Wikipedia, but it isn't in the real world, which is where we get our article titles from. The current title contravenes WP:COMMONNAME and WP:UE. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:24, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
    • I have a different reading of those policies. --Checco (talk) 06:04, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
      • "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject." It's quite clear. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:08, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.