Talk:List of 2022 albums

List criteria - Consensus

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Wikipedia's stand-alone list guideline has a new section that requires list criteria be listed out in two places and a link to the discussion that established consensus on the criteria (see WP:DOCLISTCRIT). There is discussion in the guideline talk page of purging lists that have not developed a consensus and can show it by a talk-page discussion.

The list criteria for the list of albums series is as follows: These are notable albums, defined as having received significant coverage from reliable sources independent of the subject. It could be argued that there is a second set of criteria in the lead paragraph, which states list of music albums, EPs, and mixtapes released in 20xx. I have not hunted down the discussions that defined what is album types are allowed on the list, but I can if others want to further follow up on this as additional criteria to be agreed upon.

I personally developed the notability list criteria and added it, so there was no consensus, therefore I am asking for feedback at this time, to count as a discussion and consensus that can be linked to in documentation.

I spend some time looking over the history of the lists, and have probably missed some of the discussions and agreements, but I shall try to link to the various decision points. Much of the discussion took place in edit summaries rather than in a talk page discussion.

• 2014 discussion on the 2015 list talk page - Talk:List of 2015 albums#Speculation of album release's is not suitable for Wikipedia (or any encyclopedia) article - A single user discussion on needing secondary sources to avoid speculation and provide verifiability.
• 2016 discussion on what makes an album eligible for listing, with references to notability and verifiability - Talk:List of 2016 albums#Greatest Hits albums and EPs - Short discussion that covers album verifiability and notability
• 2017 discussion on notability - Talk:List of 2017 albums/Archive 1#Album Notability - A single user discussion on defining album notability
• Edit summary conversations:
  • Revision as of 21:10, August 28, 2017 - Edit Summary states "Run into reflist size issue. No references were being shown. Changed reflist callout to {{reflist}, and all but three citations are shown. Article now getting warning "Warning: Template include size is too large. Some templates will not be included." " - This is more about overly large reflist, but led to a tightening of notability requirements to try and purge non-notable albums from the list and reduce album articles.
  • Revision as of 16:45, June 22, 2019 - When the first criteria was listed in the header of the lists. At that time, the criteria referenced a link to another wikipedia guideline. The edit summary states "Provided definition of notability used on this series of lists, as Wikipedia has a article for restrictive selection criteria WP:CSC that calls for all albums on the list to have their own wiki-articles and many albums listed here (future or recent) have news sources but no articles, and some have badly prepared articles and no news sources.". The new criteria was listed as "list of notable albums (per WP:GNG)."
  • Revision as of 11:54, October 31, 201 - Another user objected to self-referencing Wikipedia, which is not encouraged. The edit summary states "For one thing, the operative notability guide should probably NALBUM, not GNG, and for another, these sort of self-referential warnings are discouraged per WP:ASR."
  • Revision as of 19:09, October 31, 2019 - This is where the criteria we have been using was written up and added to the lists. The edit summary states "User Chubbles is correct that MOS:SELFREF requests that articles don't self reference back to Wikipedia in order to allow mirroring, and it even mentions lists, but it does say that " many list articles explicitly state their inclusion criteria in the lead section". The selection criteria for this list was listed in short-hand by using WP:GNG, but if can't use short-hand then will spell out in the lead section the criteria chosen for the album series of lists"

That is the best I could do to dig up the history of how the criteria we have been using was developed. I would ask others please comment on this consensus discussion, to either buy off on the criteria as it currently stands, or to provide modifications to the criteria. This is the formal discussion to build consensus for our list criteria. Mburrell (talk) 00:37, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

If my understanding of it is correct, these new rules would override the WP:ASR concern as such a notice is now required. I think the way the notice is currently/has been written is good and can remain as such. It certainly doesn't read like this policy asks for much more than "items on this list have to be notable per [relevant notability standards], and that's what you've already got there. The only other criterium I can think of off-hand is the album and/or artist article requirement, could certainly add something about that, especially in the Template:List criteria that we're meant to add. Maybe even specify regarding various artists releases that the album article is a strict requirement. QuietHere (talk) 01:06, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Actually, after double-checking it looks like ASR is completely irrelevant here as that page's "In list selection criteria" section reads just like a shortened version of WP:DOCLISTCRIT. QuietHere (talk) 01:09, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

I also support this criteria here, and plan to use this article as the new example for the list criteria template per talk here: Template talk:List criteria. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 04:25, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I think we can safely add the list criteria template to the talk page now... Huggums537 (talk) 01:48, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Added the template. Please adjust it if it isn't right. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 02:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Thanks for taking the time to wrap this up and close it out. Mburrell (talk) 04:03, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Ok, there have been no objections, and seems to be clear support so I think it will be safe to archive this and make a new special diff for the template. Thanks. Huggums537 (talk) 16:57, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Looking to merge the two parts of List of 2022 albums back into one list.

A year and a bit ago ago or so, the List of 2022 albums was split into two parts because it was growing into a large list article that was over 500,000 bytes (at the time one of the largest articles in Wikipedia), and because there were so many citation templates that the Invoke tool was applied to manage the excessive amount of citations. At the time the article was split by me, I mentioned that when the article peaked and shrank again, I would look to merge the article back into one easily manageable list. I had estimated that the list would shrink back down to below 500,000 bytes by March 2023. It took longer than that, but as the various albums acquired album articles that were able to show self-notability, various citations have been removed, and the two articles now have a combined size less than 500,000 bytes, and still decreasing in size. List of 2022 albums (January–June) has a size of 198,324 bytes, and List of 2022 albums (July–December) has a size of 280,960 bytes, for a current total of 479,284 bytes. In addition, the size of articles has been relaxed since last year, and there are almost 50 articles that are over 500,000 bytes now. I am in favor of this merger because the combined article would be much further down the list of large articles than when it was split, and because it is easier to manage one list than two, and because over time this article will continue to get smaller as more citations are removed for self-notable album articles at a faster rate than new albums are added to the list.

Because the two lists have separate history, I cannot just cut from List of 2022 albums (January–June) and paste into List of 2022 albums (July–December), I will need to reach out to an administrator and ask for a history merge. The administrator will ask about if this merge is controversial, so I thought I would start out and ask for comments. What are other users thoughts on requesting a merger of these two halves of 2022 album lists? Mburrell (talk) 00:42, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

List of 2022 albums (January-June) and List of 2022 albums (July-December) have been merged, histories are still separate

List of 2022 albums (January-June) and List of 2022 albums (July-December) have been merged. The history for List of 2022 albums (July-December) is now contained on this page, List of 2022 albums. The history of edits performed on the earlier part of the list can still be found at List of 2022 albums (January–June), (History). Per WP:MERGETEXT, "Note: Most merged articles are not good candidates for merging of page histories because they have been edited in parallel and the collation of their edit states would create unhelpful and/or misleading diffs. In most cases, no request for a history-merge should be submitted." Mburrell (talk) 23:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I've added the {{Copied}} template to this talk page, here, to document this for attribution. — Mudwater ^(Talk) 11:14, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Blue October - Spinning the Truth Around (Part I)

Blue October - Spinning the Truth Around (Part I) was removed for lacking notability. I found numerous sources shown below that discuss Part I individually. Please reinstate it or explain in detail why it is not notable to help me grow as a contributor. Thank you.

https://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/85799/Blue-October-Spinning-the-Truth-Around-Part-I/

https://www.spin.com/2022/10/blue-octobers-newest-honors-the-album-journey/

https://www.velvetthunder.co.uk/blue-october-spinning-the-truth-around-part-i-up-down-brando-records/

https://www.iamtunedup.com/blue-october-spinning-the-truth-around-part-1/

https://keynotemusiccollective.com/?p=10940

https://getreadytorock.me.uk/blog/2022/10/album-review-blue-october-spinning-the-truth-around/ TheWikiCurmudgeon (talk) 20:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

For transparency, this is a followup to Curmudgeon asking me on my talk page about the same issue. My stance remains the same now as it has been, which is that these sources (aside from Spin and maybe Sputnik) do not convey notability of the release. I do not think an album article for the album would survive on sourcing like this, and so I do not think it is notable enough to be listed here. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 09:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, @TheWikiCurmudgeon, please give WP:FORUMSHOP a read and make sure to keep it in mind for next time. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 09:41, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I apologize, I will not double post in the future. Can you please help me understand what is wrong with those sources? I'm fine leaving it off but just want to learn. I noticed Spinning the Truth Around Part II on List of 2023 albums which seemed like it had similar reliability in the sources to my inexperienced eye. TheWikiCurmudgeon (talk) 02:04, 10 January 2024 (UTC)